Plumbing help

[Wynie]

Hi
Im having a 8ft x 2ft x 2ft 250 gal tank built.
Im going to use a herbie overflow (1 1/4in) with dual return (1in). The returns wont be combined.

I have the following equipment that needs to be fed from the returns:
In-line heater
55w uv
4way manifold (refugium, 2 x reactors and chiller) (the chiller is for future, but need to have the plumbing available)

My question is: Would it be best to put the heater and uv on one line and the manifold on the other line, or should I put all equipment on one line and take the other line straight to the tank?

 

[UncommonSense]

Hi
Im having a 8ft x 2ft x 2ft 250 gal tank built.
Im going to use a herbie overflow (1 1/4in) with dual return (1in). The returns wont be combined.

I have the following equipment that needs to be fed from the returns:
In-line heater
55w uv
4way manifold (refugium, 2 x reactors and chiller) (the chiller is for future, but need to have the plumbing available)

My question is: Would it be best to put the heater and uv on one line and the manifold on the other line, or should I put all equipment on one line and take the other line straight to the tank?

I’d split it up, possibly with your chiller fed off your heater/UV side return so both returns can still output a decent volume of water back to the display!

(I assume you’re running dual pumps for redundancy, if the return pump doing 70-90% of the return flow fails, you’re taking away from that redundancy! — hence splitting demand between both returns lines! [on that note, I presume you have some means of turning off the heater and UV if no flow through that return line is detected?])

 

[Wynie]

Hi
Im having a 8ft x 2ft x 2ft 250 gal tank built.
Im going to use a herbie overflow (1 1/4in) with dual return (1in). The returns wont be combined.

I have the following equipment that needs to be fed from the returns:
In-line heater
55w uv
4way manifold (refugium, 2 x reactors and chiller) (the chiller is for future, but need to have the plumbing available)

My question is: Would it be best to put the heater and uv on one line and the manifold on the other line, or should I put all equipment on one line and take the other line straight to the tank?

I’d split it up, possibly with your chiller fed off your heater/UV side return so both returns can still output a decent volume of water back to the display!

(I assume you’re running dual pumps for redundancy, if the return pump doing 70-90% of the return flow fails, you’re taking away from that redundancy! — hence splitting demand between both returns lines! [on that note, I presume you have some means of turning off the heater and UV if no flow through that return line is detected?])

Yes im going to run two dc return pumps.
Never really thought about what would happen if flow stops.
I will have non return valves at the start of each return line.
The heater should turn off automatically, but the uv would be the only problem. It will stay filled with water, but might get warm.

 

[UncommonSense]

Unfortunately, non-return valves (check valves) have a bad tendency to fail open in a reef tank environment…

That is to say, the water flowing through these valves is far from sterile, so the sealing surfaces inside them will inevitably accumulate biofilm and encrusting organisms… this layer of “debris” on the sealing surfaces will allow water to seep backwards (or return) through the non-return valve during a pump shutdown! (Monthly maintenance can help to prevent this, but they are typically notoriously unreliable in the aquarium hobby!)

For your UV, having the housing mount at a low point in the return plumbing can help to keep it relatively full of water in the event of a return pump shutdown!

 

[Decamicron Labs Verified Sponsor]

Personally, I would plumb it so that everything that goes back to your DT passes through your UV sterilizer for biological reasons. However, I admit I don't know enough about the practicalities of return lines to comment on some of your other concerns.

 

[mcarroll]

Hi
Im having a 8ft x 2ft x 2ft 250 gal tank built.
Im going to use a herbie overflow (1 1/4in) with dual return (1in). The returns wont be combined.

I have the following equipment that needs to be fed from the returns:
In-line heater
55w uv
4way manifold (refugium, 2 x reactors and chiller) (the chiller is for future, but need to have the plumbing available)

My question is: Would it be best to put the heater and uv on one line and the manifold on the other line, or should I put all equipment on one line and take the other line straight to the tank?

Are you planning for the inline heater to be the only heater for the system? I.e. the system will have no heat when that line is down?

In general I like to have a correctly sized heater for the sump (usually smaller) in the sump and a correctly sized heater for the display (usually bigger) in the display. In-line heating is much less used so be sure you're fully considered the pro's and con's....folks here just aren't generally familar. IMO it's not quite as good of a setup. Definitely don't skimp on the quality of that heater if you go that route. There are other alternative ways to do heating that I would start with if I was gong to experiment.....a dedicated heating loop with a small external point-of-use water heater, for example. Worth thinking about the options at least if you're decided on "going off the ranch".

A single, larger high quality return pump will be more efficient and have a lower failure rate than multiple smaller pumps, BTW, and you can still keep a backup pump on hand. (More devices, more complexity = more failure points. An AC pump is still my choice for a return pump because they are simpler and have fewer points of failure.) A single pump will allow for more flow in the main return line to power that manifold, et al., plus still allow you to split the return (or not) however you like.

Just some thoughts. :)

 

[Wynie]

Hi
Im having a 8ft x 2ft x 2ft 250 gal tank built.
Im going to use a herbie overflow (1 1/4in) with dual return (1in). The returns wont be combined.

I have the following equipment that needs to be fed from the returns:
In-line heater
55w uv
4way manifold (refugium, 2 x reactors and chiller) (the chiller is for future, but need to have the plumbing available)

My question is: Would it be best to put the heater and uv on one line and the manifold on the other line, or should I put all equipment on one line and take the other line straight to the tank?

Are you planning for the inline heater to be the only heater for the system? I.e. the system will have no heat when that line is down?

In general I like to have a correctly sized heater for the sump (usually smaller) in the sump and a correctly sized heater for the display (usually bigger) in the display. In-line heating is much less used so be sure you're fully considered the pro's and con's....folks here just aren't generally familar. IMO it's not quite as good of a setup. Definitely don't skimp on the quality of that heater if you go that route. There are other alternative ways to do heating that I would start with if I was gong to experiment.....a dedicated heating loop with a small external point-of-use water heater, for example. Worth thinking about the options at least if you're decided on "going off the ranch".

A single, larger high quality return pump will be more efficient and have a lower failure rate than multiple smaller pumps, BTW, and you can still keep a backup pump on hand. (More devices, more complexity = more failure points. An AC pump is still my choice for a return pump because they are simpler and have fewer points of failure.) A single pump will allow for more flow in the main return line to power that manifold, et al., plus still allow you to split the return (or not) however you like.

Just some thoughts. :)

Thanks for your reply

Im currently using an chihiros inline heater on my 50gal and found it is much more effective than my in sump heaters. (Electricity usage is way down).

In my new system im planning to run both the inline heater and in sump heaters. The sump heaters will be on a controller and be set slightly lower. I want the inline to do the bulk of the work.

Maybe it will be a good idea to run two inline heaters. One for both lines.

 

[mcarroll]

Thanks for your reply

Im currently using an chihiros inline heater on my 50gal and found it is much more effective than my in sump heaters. (Electricity usage is way down).

The sump is going to lose heat thru evap. cooling as well as radiation thru the return line....it will never be as efficient as running a right-sized heater in each tank. An inline heater is probably similar to running a heater in the display tank, but it comes with different pro's and con's.....for example running dry because the return pump is off. Several heaters have run-dry protection, but it doesn't seem to keep the heaters from failing, just from (hpefully) frying your tank.

In my new system im planning to run both the inline heater and in sump heaters. The sump heaters will be on a controller and be set slightly lower. I want the inline to do the bulk of the work.

Just a small heater (correctly sized for the sump's gallonage should do it....probably no need to run it at a different temp. than the display. In fact that would reduce its redundancy value.

Maybe it will be a good idea to run two inline heaters. One for both lines.

If you're sold only the dual-return idea and believe those heaters will be reliable 2+ years out, then I agree.

 

[Wynie]

Thanks for your reply

Im currently using an chihiros inline heater on my 50gal and found it is much more effective than my in sump heaters. (Electricity usage is way down).

The sump is going to lose heat thru evap. cooling as well as radiation thru the return line....it will never be as efficient as running a right-sized heater in each tank. An inline heater is probably similar to running a heater in the display tank, but it comes with different pro's and con's.....for example running dry because the return pump is off. Several heaters have run-dry protection, but it doesn't seem to keep the heaters from failing, just from (hpefully) frying your tank.

In my new system im planning to run both the inline heater and in sump heaters. The sump heaters will be on a controller and be set slightly lower. I want the inline to do the bulk of the work.

Just a small heater (correctly sized for the sump's gallonage should do it....probably no need to run it at a different temp. than the display. In fact that would reduce its redundancy value.

Maybe it will be a good idea to run two inline heaters. One for both lines.

If you're sold only the dual-return idea and believe those heaters will be reliable 2+ years out, then I agree.

Im away from home often so I need the dual return for peace of mind.

If one return fails, I need to know that the tank can run relatively normal until I can replace.

What you are saying about the in-sump correctly sized heater makes sense. Ill definitely be adding one.

 

[Piotrek]

Personally I would drop the inline heater - I assume it's flow trough? IMHO big risk - if it leaks water, or the pumps stop and you forget to turn it off etc.
I use a UV in a separate line, with a dedicated pump. In the past, I did experiment with passing some of the return water trough UV (valve regulated) back into the sump, but I dropped that - hard to regulate and traps air inside, but maybe my plumbing was wrong.

 

[mcarroll]

Im away from home often so I need the dual return for peace of mind.

If one return fails, I need to know that the tank can run relatively normal until I can replace.

What you are saying about the in-sump correctly sized heater makes sense. Ill definitely be adding one.

Good thinking, and I wouldn't tell you not to do it.

But I will say that (good, name brand) pumps hardly ever just quit while running....they usually (afgter several good years of service) fail to start back up after being shut down. If your AC power is reliable, then Maintenance Day should be the main failure point for a good return pump...not a day when you're out of town. (If your power is not reliable, then a standby generator is almost a must.)

I would only add that reef tanks are really meant to be observed daily without much exception....this is probably more important when the tank is new and lots of things are in the process of changing all the time....somewhat less true once the tank has matured and more or less stabilized. So keep doing your planning and thinking ahead....but if you're away for long it may not be a bad idea to have the tank looked after while you're gone like you would for (eg) a dog.