QT Question

dochow · Jan 1, 2016

Follow up:

Happy I have QT'd...

My six line wrasse and royal gramma have started showing signs of both ich and now maybe even flukes after almost 3 weeks in my QT. They are acting fine, no flashing, but I can see white spots on them.

I am dropping salinity slowly now to 1.009 over past 72hrs. I have cupramine and praziquantel arriving tomorrow. Should I try hyposalinity or do everything possible as soon as I get meds?

Humblefish · Jan 1, 2016

dochow said:
Follow up:

Happy I have QT'd...

My six line wrasse and royal gramma have started showing signs of both ich and now maybe even flukes after almost 3 weeks in my QT. They are acting fine, no flashing, but I can see white spots on them.

I am dropping salinity slowly now to 1.009 over past 72hrs. I have cupramine and praziquantel arriving tomorrow. Should I try hyposalinity or do everything possible as soon as I get meds?

If you've already started dropping the SG, you would need to raise it back up before using Cupramine and possibly prazi. I don't have much experience with hypo, but I have read of mixed results when combining it with meds. Both hypo and Cupramine treat ich, so I would do one or the other (not both.)

Jlobes · Jan 1, 2016

Humblefish said:
If you've already started dropping the SG, you would need to raise it back up before using Cupramine and possibly prazi. I don't have much experience with hypo, but I have read of mixed results when combining it with meds. Both hypo and Cupramine treat ich, so I would do one or the other (not both.)

surprised you didnt suggest TTM, youre one of its biggest advocates.

Jlobes · Jan 1, 2016

dochow said:
Follow up:

Happy I have QT'd...

My six line wrasse and royal gramma have started showing signs of both ich and now maybe even flukes after almost 3 weeks in my QT. They are acting fine, no flashing, but I can see white spots on them.

I am dropping salinity slowly now to 1.009 over past 72hrs. I have cupramine and praziquantel arriving tomorrow. Should I try hyposalinity or do everything possible as soon as I get meds?

what was your QT protocol? just add to QT and observe? no prophylactic treatment?

Humblefish · Jan 1, 2016

Jlobes said:
surprised you didnt suggest TTM, youre one of its biggest advocates.

You're right, TTM would be ideal for two small fish like this. My brain isn't working well today after too much sangria last night.

How to do tank transfer method: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

Jlobes · Jan 1, 2016

haha, thatll happen!

TTm seems to be working for me, its a bit labor intensive, but im not much into copper, so id rather do the work. my borb is getting along just fine, so far. been a few instances of low ammonia readig (0.2), mostly on the transfers with prazi, because no amquel but was rectified with WC. hes on his last transfer today, and eats like a pig! soon he will be in the established QT for two more weeks, then into the display tank! woohoo.

dochow · Jan 1, 2016

I had my quarantine running for almost 2 months with some live rock from DT and powerhead from DT. It had cycled at that point. It's a 20 gallon long.

I just placed the two fish in there and observed. They were bought from reputable LFS. Both looked good at purchase and were eating.

My salinity is 1.018 right now. I'll leave it there and treat with praziquantel and Cupramine. Not sure which to go with first or do both together.

dochow · Jan 1, 2016

I also read the TTM method, I will invest in t in the future, but for now I'm a bit stuck, don't have equipment set up for another tank.

Humblefish · Jan 1, 2016

dochow said:
I had my quarantine running for almost 2 months with some live rock from DT and powerhead from DT. It had cycled at that point. It's a 20 gallon long.

I just placed the two fish in there and observed. They were bought from reputable LFS. Both looked good at purchase and were eating.

My salinity is 1.018 right now. I'll leave it there and treat with praziquantel and Cupramine. Not sure which to go with first or do both together.

You will want to remove any LR before treating with Cupramine.

dochow · Jan 2, 2016

Update. I was soo wrong in an earlier post about the tail fin "re-coloring." Looks like it became fin rot. 2 days later my royal gramma has lost most of his tail. Unreal. Pics will be attached. I also started praziquantel and started slow dosing cupramine. I can see worms falling right off my fish. Pics of worm on wrasse to follow.

ImageUploadedByREEF2REEF1451768280.225388.jpg

ImageUploadedByREEF2REEF1451768302.901955.jpg

Humblefish · Jan 2, 2016

After you are done with Prazipro, those fish are probably going to need broad spectrum antibiotic treatment i.e. Kanaplex or Furan-2.

dochow · Jan 2, 2016

I have Furan2 here on jan 6th. Crazy how fish looked great for 2 weeks and by week 3 start to look terrible.

Sometimes I wonder if I hadn't put fish right into mature DT if they would have been "OK" having plenty of live rock, hiding places, and better habit to be able to fight this off. The argument for immunity, good foods and stress may come into play here.

Love previous discussion about "to QT and not to DT."

I have been in the hobby for over 3 years combined experience, but this is my first experience with actually following a strict QT. Great learning experience. Seriously frustrating though.

What I've learned: 1.) maybe treat with empiric praziquantel to start and watch 2.) have all meds on-hand before startin QT. 3.). Know that I know nothing!

saltyhog · Jan 2, 2016

If you had put them directly in your DT all of your fish would be exposed to the disease these fish have. This is a prime example of why is important to QT......you did the right thing.

Humblefish · Jan 2, 2016

@dochow Sometimes putting sick fish right in the DT helps in the short-term, but then comes back to bite you in the butt in the long run. I kinda like that QT can be "stressful" on certain fish - it allows you to see what diseases they might be carrying sooner rather than later. A diseased fish that settles nicely into a DT will share that disease with all the other fish, and sooner or later it will rear it's ugly head.

Joon · Jan 2, 2016

Ok I had a bicolor blennie and a Wrasse in my QT the blennie died and I don't know what he had so what should I treat with or will some one help me find out what it is

Joon · Jan 2, 2016

He was breathing rapidly wasn't eating sense I got him and he wasn't swimming at all he was discolored his gills seemed to be swollen

Humblefish · Jan 2, 2016

@Joon I recommend starting a new thread about this in the fish disease forum: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-and-diagnosis.771/

It just can get confusing when two people are asking for help in the same thread.

Joon · Jan 3, 2016

Ok I did sorry

dochow · Jan 4, 2016

Praziquantel, Cupramine and Furan 2.

Can I use them all at once?

I currently am treating flukes, ich and I know some element of fin rot, whether is bacterial or fungal I'm not sure. I'm getting Furan2 today, and I would like to dose due to the amount of fin damage and skin breakdown from the flukes.

I'm 48hrs into praziquantel and probably just getting close to therapeutic dose of copper. Was at 0.3 this AM and dosed again today to get to 0.5.

I'm treating a six line wrasse and royal gramma if you look above at other threads. So far fish are behaving well, no labored breathing. Some minimal flashing. Eating well still.

Thanks all!!

Humblefish · Jan 4, 2016

@dochow Cupramine and Furan-2 together are fine, and most of the time mixing Prazipro (assuming that is what you are using?) with both is fine as well. But you have to be a little careful when mixing Prazipro with other meds as it contains oxybispropanol (solubilizing agent), and the resulting interaction can lead to a bacterial bloom in the QT which starves all oxygen out of the water.

So far I've only encountered this problem when mixing Prazipro with CP, and not when mixing with copper or antibiotics. Still be watchful for any cloudy water after dosing and be prepared to move the fish to clean SW if need be.