Questions on corals (newbie)

[Subuchef]

Hi everyone, and i thank you all for future information.
So first off my tank is a fluval aio 13.5g and i've began my cycle, i'm getting diatoms everywhere, been about a week.
So really is there a limit to corals? of course you can't put something next to one that will sting it so they need room but just trying to learn how to limit my list, I really want to keep some acropora and green star polyps. Are they okay choices for a beginner? Also i would like to ask for a reliable coral test kit can someone recommend one? And is dosing 100% required? I've read alot and just about everyone says they dose their tank I will be reading up on it more but just as a quick question on here.

I also have been reading as much as possible and i'm narrowing down my livestock list and just want some reassurance to make sure they'll be living with enough space ect.
My first couple fish I would really like to keep but can be changed/dropped
1 Clownfish
1 watchman goby/shrimp goby
1 pistol shrimp
1 african gumdrop coral croucher ( i know he needs a colony of acropora ect. so of course he'll be added whenever I achieve that, but this fish is my all time favorite)
and last but not least a CUC of snails, and a couple hermits

Is 3 fish too many?

I also have a couple questions on housing the pistol shrimp, will he kill all my inverts i've read so much about them having graveyards of shells out side of their den when paired with gobies, and is 1 1/2 inch of sand deep enough?

 

[77railer]

First I would ask what lights your planning on running as corals will need alot of light especially sps. As far as a grave yard....picture the predator movie with all the skulls piled up...this is what happens to any hermits that enter it's domain...but they "usually" leave everyone else alone. Dosing is a must as far as I've ever known as your corals will be using the elements in the water to build bone structure and grow. As long as you do weekly water changes around 2g I would think the fish wouldn't be a problem and it would help keep things balanced but take my advice with a grain of salt as I am fairly new and have never kept a nano, just telling you what I would do

 

[ahiggins]

First things first:
1) test kits-Ive had the most accurate results from salifert kits. Youll need one for mag, calc, alkalinity. This is assuming that since you have diatoms, you have completed your startup nitrogen cycle.
2) acros are by far the hardest...I still cant keep them and my tank is well over 2 yrs old. green star polyps would be a great starter, just make sure if you do that, you confine it to a certain rock or wall because it has the potential to become invasive.
3) dosing goes hand in hand with testing. If youre finding that youre using so much alkalinity and calcium that your tank is becoming unstable, then you need to dose. Since youre new and have no corals, you do not need to dose. rarely does anyone with a nano have to dose unless they never do water changes. Water changes will be your dosing of sorts. I have a 25 gal with close to 50 lps frags and I do a 5 gal water change once a month-i do not have to dose. Its all about your paramaters and how much you use.
4) your pistol WILL rearrange the sand to his liking so if youre going to do any low light corals that need sand beds, like scolys or some acans, then dont get a pistol IME. 1.5" of sand will be plenty
5) Ive never seen a croucher but Im personally against any type of critter that perches on coral lol I have a midas blenny but I dont like blenny/goby perchers. Corals are my focus and not fish but thats different for everyone. I think 3 fish will be overcrowding you. I have 3 fish that are approx 3-4" in my 25 gallon. I did have 4 but the nitrates were out of control so I had to back down.

As always, good luck! (and post a pic of that croucher lol Ive never even seen one!)

 

[40B Knasty]

Knowing how to feed coral and what time can rule out dosing. Flow also plays a part so not much settles on them or bothers them if it is to much.
First is knowing what your coral is made up of. There is an algae on the coral that is called zooxanthellae. Zooxanthellae is what feeds your coral throw photosynthesis. The peak hours of the zooxanthellae to feed the coral with their symbiotic relationship that has recently been discovered scientifically from a testing done by BRS is dawn and dusk. Mainly 10am and 5pm. In real life there is no one sitting over them dosing them. They feed off of the Sun and phytoplankton. Now to replicate the sun best, T5s. (That is what they use in tanning beds). You have your color spectrums. Chlorophyll A&B which is produced to feed your corals health and growth are mainly at 400-450nM(nanometers). ATI True Actinic peaks at 430nM. So that is technically the best light for feeding. Not for general esthetic. This helps with the skeletal stoney structure, health, and growth for the coral. Which in return gives you better color.
Reefroids can cover your phytoplankton. 2x3 a week half the dose recommended in a shot glass. Put some tank water in. Suck it out with your turkey baster and spray it in front of your power head or flow off your filter. Do not target feed corals. They go into Protection mode.
What salt you use also matters and how long you mix it. Some like RSCP(Red Sea Coral Pro) you only mix for 2hrs. After that you are throwing out beneficial minerals.
Hope that helps. Happy reefing.

 

[ahiggins]

Knowing how to feed coral and what time can rule out dosing. Flow also plays a part so not much settles on them or bothers them if it is to much.
First is knowing what your coral is made up of. There is an algae on the coral that is called zooxanthellae. Zooxanthellae is what feeds your coral throw photosynthesis. The peak hours of the zooxanthellae to feed the coral with their symbiotic relationship that has recently been discovered scientifically from a testing done by BRS is dawn and dusk. Mainly 10am and 5pm. In real life there is no one sitting over them dosing them. They feed off of the Sun and phytoplankton. Now to replicate the sun best, T5s. (That is what they use in tanning beds). You have your color spectrums. Chlorophyll A&B which is produced to feed your corals health and growth are mainly at 400-450nM(nanometers). ATI True Actinic peaks at 430nM. So that is technically the best light for feeding. Not for general esthetic. This helps with the skeletal stoney structure, health, and growth for the coral. Which in return gives you better color.
Reefroids can cover your phytoplankton. 2x3 a week half the dose recommended in a shot glass. Put some tank water in. Suck it out with your turkey baster and spray it in front of your power head or flow off your filter. Do not target feed corals. They go into Protection mode.
What salt you use also matters and how long you mix it. Some like RSCP(Red Sea Coral Pro) you only mix for 2hrs. After that you are throwing out beneficial minerals.
Hope that helps. Happy reefing.

I agree with everything except target feeding. I dont broadcast anything but reef roids. Mysis, eggs, and lrs is all target fed. (acans/blastos/favias all get target fed) toadstools, small polyp favias and zoas/palys get the broadcast). If you "target feed" with a turkey baster then I could see them going into protection mode with too much flow blowing in their face...I use a disposable pipet or tweezers.

 

[Subuchef]

Thank you guys for the replies, so acro is difficult? Dang is there any sps hard coral that isnt too hard to keep, i know they are the next step up after learning softies and lps but i really like those coral crouchers, definitely my end game, also for lighting i just have the base that comes with my tank its the fluval AIO 13.5g lighting is leds 14k i think? (I know defaults arent the best and lfs employees shouldnt be trusted but the guy said he owned the tank and has coral thriving off it, i wouldnt mind upgrading though but i would lose my top to the tank i suppose.) Also any other corals you guys might recommend would be great.
As for 3 fish might be crowding thanks for letting me know i figured it might be a big list, could i cut the goby and pistol, and be fine with just a clownfish or clowngoby with a coral croucher?
Edit: forgot to mention im not planning on adding anytging anytime soon cycle is just finishing dont want to rush it.

 

[loweryphil]

You could try montipota didgita

 

[ahiggins]

Thank you guys for the replies, so acro is difficult? Dang is there any sps hard coral that isnt too hard to keep, i know they are the next step up after learning softies and lps but i really like those coral crouchers, definitely my end game, also for lighting i just have the base that comes with my tank its the fluval AIO 13.5g lighting is leds 14k i think? (I know defaults arent the best and lfs employees shouldnt be trusted but the guy said he owned the tank and has coral thriving off it, i wouldnt mind upgrading though but i would lose my top to the tank i suppose.) Also any other corals you guys might recommend would be great.
As for 3 fish might be crowding thanks for letting me know i figured it might be a big list, could i cut the goby and pistol, and be fine with just a clownfish or clowngoby with a coral croucher?
Edit: forgot to mention im not planning on adding anytging anytime soon cycle is just finishing dont want to rush it.

IMO, I never use stock lights. theyre usually ok for softies and SOME lps but I seriously doubt it will be ok for acros or any sps.
montipora seems to be a good transition from lps to sps
and I dont know a thing about the croucher so I cant tell ya what it needs other than a clownfish and another similar sized fish would be ok in a 13g.

 

[Subuchef]

As always, good luck! (and post a pic of that croucher lol Ive never even seen one!)

First I would ask what lights your planning on running as corals will need alot of light especially sps.

Default fluval aio 13.5g 14k leds
Thank you! Here is a pic of the lil bugger (coral croucher) and I figured i would need a light but if I do i wont have a hood anymore, is that going to be an issue ive heard so many stories of fish jumpin out while people are sleeping and its just a nightmare, really dont want to deal with that. Also I do not mind upgrading my lights because I will probably need it in the long run when i want more corals ect.

 

[Subuchef]

You could try montipota didgita

I like the look of that alot, ive heard of something like branching montipora is that similar to acropora and much easier to keep? appreciate the suggestion it looks nice.

 

[ahiggins]

Default fluval aio 13.5g 14k leds
Thank you! Here is a pic of the lil bugger (coral croucher) and I figured i would need a light but if I do i wont have a hood anymore, is that going to be an issue ive heard so many stories of fish jumpin out while people are sleeping and its just a nightmare, really dont want to deal with that. Also I do not mind upgrading my lights because I will probably need it in the long run when i want more corals ect.

OH EM FREAKIN GEEE! How adorable!!
And if you do get rid of the light you can either make yourself an acrylic one or have the super talented @cromag08 make you one I have 2 made by my lfs for the displays and one that I did myself (that looks pretty crappy haha)

 

[Subuchef]

OH EM FREAKIN GEEE! How adorable!!
And if you do get rid of the light you can either make yourself an acrylic one or have the super talented @cromag08 make you one I have 2 made by my lfs for the displays and one that I did myself (that looks pretty crappy haha)

Right?? Super cute. So for lighting of course default isnt the best but when the time comes i can upgrade when im going to be getting coral but mainly what i dont know is are t5s and metal halides required, all the posts and info i read people say mhs or t5s are a must, and when i look at the prices of those my knees drop, and im hoping that they are unnecessary for only a 13.5g. So anyone have a light thats somewhat affordable 200$ max but does its job well?

 

[ahiggins]

I have AI primes over all my tanks (AI prime HD) Ive had success growing montipora species. but my water isnt good enough for acros so I dont know if its my water or lights that limit me LOL I can get par around 280-300 right under the light on the top rocks and thats at 60% intensity.

 

[TheLadyCrash]

In a tank your size (13.5g) I would strongly recommend against the GSP. It's one of the easiest to care for but grows like a weed. Don't get me wrong, it's very pretty and fun to watch but unless it is on its own rock island it will spread quickly and it doesn't sound like you have much real estate available.

I would suggest looking at doing a zoa garden. There are so many beautiful varieties and while they can be fast growers as well, you can put them next to each other usually without issue.

Also, +1 on the montipora digitatas....gorgeous corals.

 

[Subuchef]

In a tank your size (13.5g) I would strongly recommend against the GSP. It's one of the easiest to care for but grows like a weed. Don't get me wrong, it's very pretty and fun to watch but unless it is on its own rock island it will spread quickly and it doesn't sound like you have much real estate available.

I would suggest looking at doing a zoa garden. There are so many beautiful varieties and while they can be fast growers as well, you can put them next to each other usually without issue.

Also, +1 on the montipora digitatas....gorgeous corals.

Good idea on the zoa garden that actually sounds pretty nice if i can get them placed right n what not, also would you recommend that type of montipora to a beginner, i dont know anytving about them and since they seem like acrop which everyone says is difficult to keep so im just wondering. Also i have definitely heard gsp is very fast growing so will i need a piece of completely solitary rock or will this work on the grey rock

 

[77railer]

I would say those rocks are very large for a "confined GSP" you could use the one on the right for a zoa rock...I have one similar in my tank that looks like the continent of Africa....We even refer to it as Africa when talking about coral or hitch hikers when we find them on it. You could place 10 or so different zoas on it and have one heck of a nice display a year from now. I dont recommend you trying to keep any sps right now....Also one thing that hasnt been pointed out is the water quality that the different types of corals demand. Your zoas, leathers, and lps can handle "dirty water" where as your sps corals need "cleaner water" not to say you arent going to keep a clean tank...its just that the nutrients that the softies, leathers, and lps require arent often found in sps systems....not to say that they cant survive together...I have a mixed reef myself....but its a balancing act...keeping something alive vs watching it thrive are two different things. Just food for thought. Just last week we had two days that a surge protector malfunctioned and caused our lights and heaters to shutoff for several hours lowering the temp in the tank several degrees. Everything survived...but one of our deep water acro "Red Dragon Acro" bleached one of its branches which really bothered me....everything else acted like it could have cared less....but from my research and experience deep water acro are more sensitive....

Lighting....I think I read that 14k led lighting under the hood. I think that would be fine for growing anything that people consider "starter corals". These often get bad responses out of people...they think that means cheap or unwanted. It can? but doesnt have to...take a leather coral for example...you can go out and grab a run of the mill Sinularia "finger leather" which come in a myriad of colors or be picky and patient and grab your self a neon green Sinularia that will absolutely take your breath away (not my picture) they are easy to care for and as long as you are prudent about fragging it when needed would be fine in your tank and be the piece that draws everyones eye to the tank...then once it has their attention they can see the other wonderful things your tank has to offer Kind of a not being able to see the forest because of the trees effect Good luck with it all and dont hesitate to keep us all posted...cant wait to see how your tank turns out...need to start my tank build thread as well.

 

[Subuchef]

I would say those rocks are very large for a "confined GSP" you could use the one on the right for a zoa rock...I have one similar in my tank that looks like the continent of Africa....We even refer to it as Africa when talking about coral or hitch hikers when we find them on it. You could place 10 or so different zoas on it and have one heck of a nice display a year from now. I dont recommend you trying to keep any sps right now....Also one thing that hasnt been pointed out is the water quality that the different types of corals demand. Your zoas, leathers, and lps can handle "dirty water" where as your sps corals need "cleaner water" not to say you arent going to keep a clean tank...its just that the nutrients that the softies, leathers, and lps require arent often found in sps systems....not to say that they cant survive together...I have a mixed reef myself....but its a balancing act...keeping something alive vs watching it thrive are two different things. Just food for thought. Just last week we had two days that a surge protector malfunctioned and caused our lights and heaters to shutoff for several hours lowering the temp in the tank several degrees. Everything survived...but one of our deep water acro "Red Dragon Acro" bleached one of its branches which really bothered me....everything else acted like it could have cared less....but from my research and experience deep water acro are more sensitive....

Lighting....I think I read that 14k led lighting under the hood. I think that would be fine for growing anything that people consider "starter corals". These often get bad responses out of people...they think that means cheap or unwanted. It can? but doesnt have to...take a leather coral for example...you can go out and grab a run of the mill Sinularia "finger leather" which come in a myriad of colors or be picky and patient and grab your self a neon green Sinularia that will absolutely take your breath away (not my picture) they are easy to care for and as long as you are prudent about fragging it when needed would be fine in your tank and be the piece that draws everyones eye to the tank...then once it has their attention they can see the other wonderful things your tank has to offer Kind of a not being able to see the forest because of the trees effect Good luck with it all and dont hesitate to keep us all posted...cant wait to see how your tank turns out...need to start my tank build thread as well.

Alright I figured it was pretty big to have it on but my main worry is if i want another rock in there for that GSP will it recycle my tank?, and by no means was I trying to put in acro in as my starter coral I've definitely learned my lesson about patients...And not trusting your LFS for info regarding anything. They told me to cycle with a damsel and well he got sick and I took him back after like a day, read all about it and realized that what I did was pretty cruel so i'll definitely be taking it one slow step at a time. As for that picture is that the Sinularia? Like you said I dont mind starting with the beginner corals, many are beautiful and I really like the idea of a zoa garden. For a beginner would you recommend these few as my first in the tank whenever I'm ready, GSP (with a confined rock) maybe that leather coral if I can find a beautiful one, a xenia (heard they are super invasive aswell but heard they host clownfish sometimes) and if i can have that happen i would be astounded because I was really set on trying to get an anemone in this tank but came realize as a beginner i should really stray away from them until I upgrade tanks, and finally some zoas. would those 4 be decent to slowly start with? And for the light thank you for the info because I was not trying to drop on a 250$ AI Prime light...I will down the line but for my first tank I want to keep it simple and if I want different corals later on I can upgrade. What corals would you recommend under that light by chance if you could list a few, because i really dont know what beginner corals are, aside from like leather coral, mushrooms ect.

Edit: i forgot to mention is frogspawn or any coral like hammer coral easy for beginners I just love the look of those but no worries if theyre difficult to keep it'll just have to wait.

 

[77railer]

First I am sry your LFS is not living up to your expectations...We have several amazing stores in our area and a few I wouldnt touch with someone elses tank . That picture is a Sinularia Leather. Those corals you suggested are fine...and as long as you frag them once they outgrow their territory..which they will...then you will be ok. Tank raised clowns may or may not host...but there are several threads on people doing different things to help that happen. I think you are heading in the right direction. As far as adding a new rock...as long as it is from an established tank and you are able to transport it wet you should have minimal die off and be fine. Hardest part of keeping corals is telling ourselves no,lol....Im always fighting with myself because I see something I want but know I shouldnt have like a pistol shrimp or trigger fish

 

[40B Knasty]

Candy cane, frog spawn, Zoanthids, and pulsing Xenia are so easy. Get a moderate flow on them and a fixture that can hold 2 ATI bulbs. Blue plus and coral plus. That should give you a good start. Solarmax HO IS not costly and plug and play. (If you want great growth use a True Actinic. Not a great look though)
Do what I mentioned about the times to feed the coral the most light and you will turn this into the 3 following it.
8 polyps to 24
7 polyps to 44
Never counted the orange and white skirt, but they are now grey skirt/hyper pink
1st pic: Blue+&Coral+
2, 3, 4: B+,C+,B+,TA & Reefroids 2x a week half the recommended dose(3months)
5: muddy purple line on top of live rock.

 

[Subuchef]

1st pic: Blue+&Coral+
2, 3, 4: B+,C+,B+,TA & Reefroids 2x a week half the recommended dose(3months)
5: muddy purple line on top of live rock.

Ok so that light looks a lot more affordable but I've been looking around and can only find 36inch + models of the fixture and I mean thats ok if i really need one but my tank is about 22inches long and it would literally hang off a foot, I was looking there was a Solarmax HE 24inch but not HO is there a major difference that you know of or just a reason to not get it.
I would definitely buy that light it looks affordable and sounds like it does the job well.
Also the part I quoted I didn't really understand so the feeding schedule is alternating bulbs (if im guessing correctly) then fed reefroids and TA (what is TA?)