Really high alkaline and low ph

[Djluster]

Ok I have been fighting with high alkaline for about a month, 13-15 my ph is on the lower side as well 7.95-8.0 I can’t does for ph due to my dkh. I have been doing weekly water changes with low dkh about 6-8 I get my salt water from LFS. I do about a 15-20% change, all my number are not to bad. I have tested with two different test plus my LFs has tested it as well and it was high that was before I had my own kit. That is what made me buy my own Salifert test.
I have a 29 biocube. I do not run a slimmer, How do I lower it with out lowering my ph much and without doing a very big water change, my tank has been setup for 3 years as a FOWLR but about 2 months ago started corals. I tried to include most info you might need.

Salinity 1.025
Ph - 8.0
Alk - 14.4
Cal 440
Meg 1440
Nitrate 10
Nitrite 0
Phosphate 0.05
Ammonia 0

 

[blasterman]

Alk will only be this high if you are dosing it, or your salt mix is screwed up.(or you are massively over dosing kalk, which I don't think is the issue here).

I have been doing weekly water changes with low dkh about 6-8 I get my salt water from LFS.

While some LFS stores sell pre made salt water there's no way they would mix it at a dKH of 6. The lowest commercial salt mixes are 7-8 at the absolute lowest for "Pro" mixes. LFS stores that sell pre made salt water tend to use something cheap like reef crystals or instant ocean, and those have default dKH much higher. I also don't get how its "6-8". Is it 6, or is it 8?

I use Salifert for testing alk and find it pretty reliable.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a pH of 7.95 to 8.0. This is a relatively common pH in marine aquaria, especially in tightly closed homes where CO2 is elevated. Many people have no trouble maintaining fish and corals at this pH.

In seawater pH is controlled almost entirely by dissolved CO2. Changing carbonate alkalinity will change pH, but it is not a long-term means of managing pH. As you have seen, you can increase alkalinity to double natural seawater levels and still have a pH far below that of natural seawater. High-pH additives can help to to maintain alkalinity and pH at the same time, such as calcium or sodium hydroxide. But these should not be viewed as "pH boosters." These should be considered alkalinity supplements that also increase pH.

The only long-term solution to control pH is to control CO2. You can implement a CO2 scrubber to reduce CO2 in your tank water and increase pH, but I personally wouldn't bother. Many tanks do fine at your pH level. I would switch to some high-pH alkalinity additives, like those mentioned above, and leave your pH alone.

 

[Djluster]

Ok I am not sure if the kid that checked the alk at the LFS did it right, I have dosed for my ph which I think make my alk go up. But I used Kent’s super buffer but stopped that 2 weeks back and have done 2 water changes since, but another lfs has me try don’t know brand but it’s something 8.4 ph. I am going to stop using that. I think as long as my ph does not drop below 7.8 I will not stress.
My coral all seem fine at the moment so I will let them use some of it and do another water change next week again to help lower again.

I don’t know if I can use a co2 scrubber as I do not have a skimmer for my biocube. I don’t know if scrubber can work without a skimmer. I might move my power head up higher and use it to circulate the water more to see if that helps.

 

[thejuice24]

If you're not testing the water change water, I would. Trust but verify. I'd stop doing water changes for a while, or move to a different schedule, once every two weeks. Are you dosing alkalinity? Best thing to do is to let alkalinity drop naturally, but slowly.

On the PH side of things, don't chase numbers. Best thing you could do to help is add a skimmer with an air intake hose ran to the outside so it draws fresh air. Biggest factor of PH is C02 and Oxygen. Alkalinity is just the buffer of PH. When PH drops it takes from Alkalinity to help buffer it. But PH will never will put back into Alkalinity directly. There are some really good videos on PH and Alkalinity relationship on youtube.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Is it aquavitro eight.four? If so, that is an alkalinity additive and will raise your alkalinity if you dose it. It will likely raise your pH also, but no more so than a good sodium carbonate/sodium hydroxide/calcium hydroxide dosing system.

I'm pleasantly surprised that Aquavitro is finally admitting that eight.four raises carbonate alkalinity. For the longest time, they flat out lied to the hobby and told us that eight.four only raised pH without raising carbonate alkalinity. This was always a lie and has never been possible with any forumlation that eight.four has ever used. Kudos to Seachem for telling the truth about their products.

 

[Djluster]

If you're not testing the water change water, I would. Trust but verify. I'd stop doing water changes for a while, or move to a different schedule, once every two weeks. Are you dosing alkalinity? Best thing to do is to let alkalinity drop naturally, but slowly.

On the PH side of things, don't chase numbers. Best thing you could do to help is add a skimmer with an air intake hose ran to the outside so it draws fresh air. Biggest factor of PH is C02 and Oxygen. Alkalinity is just the buffer of PH. When PH drops it takes from Alkalinity to help buffer it. But PH will never will put back into Alkalinity directly. There are some really good videos on PH and Alkalinity relationship on youtube.

Thank you I normally do test my water before I put it in, but did not the time I had him test it. I have stopped doseing for ph now, I have not does separately my alk since it has been so high. I have need to does small amounts of cal and meg. I will switch to every 2 weeks on water changes and my water test one a week not twice a week.

 

[thejuice24]

Ok I am not sure if the kid that checked the alk at the LFS did it right, I have dosed for my ph which I think make my alk go up. But I used Kent’s super buffer but stopped that 2 weeks back and have done 2 water changes since, but another lfs has me try don’t know brand but it’s something 8.4 ph. I am going to stop using that. I think as long as my ph does not drop below 7.8 I will not stress.
My coral all seem fine at the moment so I will let them use some of it and do another water change next week again to help lower again.

I don’t know if I can use a co2 scrubber as I do not have a skimmer for my biocube. I don’t know if scrubber can work without a skimmer. I might move my power head up higher and use it to circulate the water more to see if that helps.

My personal opinion stay far away from the those PH buffers. They cause nothing but headaches. If you need to dose ALK cause your water change won't keep ALK stable, go to a two-part solution or kalk.

 

[Djluster]

Is it aquavitro eight.four? If so, that is an alkalinity additive and will raise your alkalinity if you dose it. It will likely raise your pH also, but no more so than a good sodium carbonate/sodium hydroxide/calcium hydroxide dosing system.

I'm pleasantly surprised that Aquavitro is finally admitting that eight.four raises carbonate alkalinity. For the longest time, they flat out lied to the hobby and told us that eight.four only raised pH without raising carbonate alkalinity. This was always a lie and has never been possible with any forumlation that eight.four has ever used. Kudos to Seachem for telling the truth about their products.

Yes I just looked and yes that is the brand, I was told as well it should not affect my alk. But I will not do anything for a week and see what happens, but I will pick up a skimmer next couple days as well.

 

[Djluster]

My personal opinion stay far away from the those PH buffers. They cause nothing but headaches. If you need to dose ALK cause your water change won't keep ALK stable, go to a two-part solution or kalk.

Thank you I do have part Red Sea ABC but I have not dosed alk due to it being high. I also do have a part 2, but have not been using it either due to my numbers, just dosing cal and meg when needed, until I get all my numbers stable and can figure out a true consumption rate for dosing.

 

[thejuice24]

Thank you I do have part Red Sea ABC but I have not dosed alk due to it being high. I also do have a part 2, but have not been using it either due to my numbers, just dosing cal and meg when needed, until I get all my numbers stable and can figure out a true consumption rate for dosing.

Excellent! Sounds like your going down the right path. Happy Reefing!

 

[blasterman]

pH buffers as they are marketed are typically just alk buffers. Basically yet another name for baking soda in a bottle. Calcium hydroxide (kalk) is the most common ingredient to directly raise pH, but I've never seen it sold in a bottle to raise pH (thank goodness).

Not sure why the industry got onto this 'pH buffer' nonsense when alk really doesn't do that, but most people it's markted towards tend to neglect their tanks and need an alk boost anyways.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes I just looked and yes that is the brand, I was told as well it should not affect my alk. But I will not do anything for a week and see what happens, but I will pick up a skimmer next couple days as well.

Aquavitro 8.4? Don't take advice from that person again.

It says right on the bottle it raises alkalinity:

 

[Djluster]

Aquavitro 8.4? Don't take advice from that person again.

It says right on the bottle it raises alkalinity:

Yep that is the stuff and yes I don’t plan to. That is why i figured my best bet was to come here, since no one is trying to sell something to make ends meet.

I think right now I will not dose anything. But keep and eye on my ph and then on Monday do my test again and just test twice a week until I get it figured out. I guess unless my calcium falls to much then I will dose with Red Sea A. I also bought a skimmer today so will put that in when I get it to see if helps with anything.
And then see if I have to get a co2 scrubber to help with PH. Hoping the skimmer will be enough plus opening the house up in the mornings.

My fish and coral seem to be doing ok so I will not stress to much and chase it.

 

[Djluster]

Wanted to do an update. I have not added anything to my tank as far as dosing. My alk dropped down to 13.1 from the 14.4 it was at. My ph has remained at the 7.95-8. I like the drop so far not to where I want it but I don’t want to drop to fast.

I live in southeast Florida. So I went on incoming tide and got some the inlet. I tested the natural saltwater when I got home.
Salinity 1.027
Ph - 8.25
Alk - 7
Cal- 420
Meg -1320
Nitrate - 10
Nitrite - 0
Phosphate -0
Ammonia 0

So I did a water change. Of 5 gallons on my 29 biocube.

Tonight when I just check a few reading.
PH 8 still
Alk 12.1
Cal 430

So number are not there yet but getting lower. All my fish and coral are looking good. Not great but good.
I get my new skimmer in a couple days so it Should help some. Hoping that’s will help bring my PH up just a little.
I will do a full check tomorrow and then I am thinking come Friday my numbers should be good. Until anyone has some ideas to get my numbers a little lower.

Would running a small fan above my tank help at all.