Reef Chemistry Question of the Day #206 The "ate" suffix

[spiraling]

My current one is of a insecticidal molecule known as flonicamid.. it can be thought of as a non peptide mimic of certain potassium channel blocking anemone toxins (the insecticide has similar binding profile)

I have no idea what you just said - but it sounds pretty cool!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have no idea what you just said - but it sounds pretty cool!

It's cool unless you're an insect. lol

 

[Alfrareef]

1 if it were true. Since it's not true I'll go with 2

 

[Orcus Varuna]

Hmmm okay so they are all ions classed under oxyanions (1 true), by definition then they are all negatively charged (2 true). I don't recall any ate oxyanions with less then 3 oxygen but that doesn't mean by nomenclature standards there isn't [emoji848]. If there are most common oxyanions that with less then 3 oxygen please post them. But by being oxyanions they definitely contain at least 1 oxygen (3 true). As for metals I can think of permanganate off the top of my head so 6 is out.

Thus even though I can't think of any with less then three oxygen I will go with 4 & 5 as my answer [emoji4]

 

[SashimiTurtle]

-ate has one more O than - ite... other than that... shrug

 

[Orcus Varuna]

Cyanate fits my intended definition OK, although a little oddly. Some cuprates do too but some aren't exactly fitting the true definition of what an "ate" is. Some, I think, are misapplications of the name, maybe even arising before people knew the actual structure.

Appears as if my Tapatalk is lagging way behind I now see 4 whole pages of answers and not 2 posts haha [emoji23]. So by intended definition are you capturing all oxyanions? Also by nomenclature standards ate applies to the "most common" oxyanion correct?

 

[Ghxst]

4&5

1,2,3&6 happen in all of them

1&2 collectively make them anions
3 because I remember something about ate(S) needing at least one O's and 6 because there is 4 or 6 common ates in chem and none of them are metals. Why would require looking at my chem notes in storage lol

Edit cause I had to readjust to accommodate for "not true"

 

[Bruce Burnett]

1. They are all ions. True
2. They are all negatively charged. True
3. They all contain at least one oxygen atom True
4. They all contain at least two oxygen atoms True
5. They all contain at least three oxygen atoms False could be 2, 3, 4
6. They never contain metals as part of the structure False

 

[sghera64]

Because of ferrate and cyanate I have to go with choices 4, 5 and 6.

 

[jason2459]

lol

We have a math professor friend who loves that. lol

Yeah, I don't know why but it always cracks me up.

Funny this thread came to mind again today. My 8 year old has always liked sciences and particularly chemistry. We were doing some science experiments today covering the detection of CO2 using limewater, acetic acid, and sodium bicarbonate. First was just a test with some limewater and blowing into it with a straw to see the precipitate from the CO2 he's exhaling.

Then we have a setup of an array of vials and tubes which we put some vinegar in an upper vial, sodium bicarbonate in a lower vial that's closed with a tubing going from the vinegar to the lower vial with a valve between them. Then from the sodium bicarbonate is another tube from the sealed container that goes to another vial with limewater in it and the tube fully submerged in it. So, once the valve is opened briefly then closed so the vinegar rushes to the sodium bicarbonate and reacts which the gases then bubble into the limewater which if there's CO2 in the gas will precipitate CaCO3. Which of course it did and my son was able to create a CO2 detector.

Sorry, side tracked, I just get excited doing things like that with my son.

ANYWAY. We were going through the list of everything we needed and we came to Sodium Bicarbonate and he asks what did it eat? I've been calling things more recently by their chemical names for him over their store labels. I had to laugh and that brought us going through looking up some prefixes and suffixes to chemistry terms.

 

[Reef Able]

Randy what have you started i see an ate war [emoji23]

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

And the answer is...4, 5, 6

Which of the following is (are) not true of all "ate" ending chemicals? May be more than one correct answer.
1. They are all ions.
2. They are all negatively charged.
3. They all contain at least one oxygen atom
4. They all contain at least two oxygen atoms
5. They all contain at least three oxygen atoms
6. They never contain metals as part of the structure

The "ate" ending implies what is called an oxyanion. It is negatively charged and contains an oxygen, or more than one (could be many, could be thousands, as in sodium polyacrylate) But only one is needed.

Examples that we encounter are nitrate, phosphate, carbonate, bicarbonate, silicate, sulfate, thiosulfate, bisulfate, borate, permanganate, chlorate, iodate, bromate, perbromate, perchlorate, acetate, etc. There are many more.

Here are some with only one oxygen:

cyanate NCO-
phenolate C6H5O-
hypoiodate IO-
thiocyanate SCN-

and some with metals:
permanganate MnO4-
ferrate FeO4--
chromate CrO4--

Note that there are some common names that deviate from this, such as cuprates without oxygen (including CuCl4-) and a variety of organic chemicals that are named as combinations of things, the ate part of which by itself would be an oxyanion, but which when combined carries no charge (such as ethyl acetate).

 

[Ghxst]

Ahhhh I put 4&5 and then Wrote there is no metals in them but didn't put 6 down lol.

Dr. Randy, you have inspired me to get my chem notes out of storage. You sir are awesome!

 

[Alfrareef]

One more free lesson to go! Thanks.