Reef Flux - Day 3 - high no3 low po4, wuts happening

ilikefish69 · Jan 15, 2023

Ive got the ol bryopsis and GHA, did a reef flux treatment and am trying to wrap my head around my levels. Any pointers are helpful.

turned off skimmer, removed carbon, chaeto still in sump and growing

my no3 floats around 40 and po4 around 0.1, kh low 9s

after 3 days, it looks to be what are dinos settling on the rocks? Patches are turning red, noticing the bryopsis is receding and blowing off with turkey baster.

my no3 has sky rocketed into the 80s and po4 is down between 0.01 and 0.03

ill hit it with a heavy dose of reef roids tomorrow, feed a bit heavier, but does anyone have an idea of whats happening in my tank? Was nervous about chemical treatment but it is only option

ilikefish69 · Jan 15, 2023

Also the kh is now below PH, is that even possible? Ph at 8.4 KH was 7.9

ilikefish69 · Jan 17, 2023

Bump for help during business hours when we’re all on R2R during work lolol

ilikefish69 · Jan 17, 2023

Well… hope someone chimes in… lol

update: Hollywood stunner is completely white, dead

anemone MIA since yesterday

I’m turning on the skimmer, carbon, and GFO…. Planning on 20% daily water changes until stuff looks better. Algae is dying but so is everything else. I’d rather have coral and algae instead of no algae or coral.

any/all help appreciated!!

ilikefish69 · Jan 17, 2023

At least the mushrooms are happy

Tamberav · Jan 17, 2023

You are killing the bryopsis which will release decaying matter into the tank. It has to go somewhere so likely will be a swing in nutrients.

Sometimes since the tank is not balanced... cyano comes next... then dino.

Tamberav · Jan 17, 2023

Do not turn off skimmer with reef flux, you can just remove the cup. You want the oxygenation.

Don't use reef roids to bring up PO4, dose phosphate directly.

You are just adding organics in excess with the reef roids. Not a good way to try and balance this.

Brightwell make bottled phosphate called Neophos.

sixty_reefer · Jan 17, 2023

You need to dose phosphates as soon as possible to counterbalance the reaction of the carbohydrates released by the dead algae.

also remove chaeto and any other algae that you can remove by hand, protein skimmer back into action and surface agitation is a good idea at this point also.

ilikefish69 · Jan 17, 2023

Just tested phosphates again, like you said the reef roids were definitely not a good idea. Nitrate is highest it’s ever been, scared to admit might be the 100 color on Salifert.

will pick up some phosphate in a bottle tmrw at LFS, but the imbalance doesn’t seem to be as much of an issue as now high on both no3 and po4

what are opinions on the water change? I can redo the reef flux at a later point, if the water change dilutes it to the point of inactive ingredient.

oxygenation isn’t too much of an issue, but running skimmer with no cup is, the skim would exit the sump, cup kind of hangs off the edge, and that would be messy. Turned skimmer back on, but pic of the bubbles from overflow and a bubble maker

Thank you so very much in helping me right this wrong for these little critters we have all grown quite attached to each other

ilikefish69 · Jan 17, 2023

Phosphates, usually 0.03-0.07 color range

ilikefish69 · Jan 17, 2023

Doing nitrate test, skimmer is back on, carbon going

ilikefish69 · Jan 17, 2023

Nitrate

sixty_reefer · Jan 17, 2023

There is two events that I can see here with the latest information.

1. Carbohydrates have been released to the water depleting phosphates initially

2. the flux chocked the algae and you have more ammonia available now for bacteria to oxidise into nitrates ( to confirm this one you could perform a no2 test )

I’m more in the believe that it’s a mix of both happening in your system.

ilikefish69 · Jan 17, 2023

sixty_reefer said:
There is two events that I can see here with the latest information.

1. Carbohydrates have been released to the water depleting phosphates initially

2. the flux chocked the algae and you have more ammonia available now for bacteria to oxidise into nitrates ( to confirm this one you could perform a no2 test )

I’m more in the believe that it’s a mix of both happening in your system.

Dumb question, no2 being nitrite? I have an old API one laying around somewhere, does having 50-60 pounds in live rock help or hurt the extra ammonia presence?

water change to lower nutrient levels, at what point does that become recommended?

Jon's Reef · Jan 17, 2023

I would do a 20% water change and scrub a few rocks in a 5 gal bucket once a week. Repeat until things have turned for the better.

sixty_reefer · Jan 17, 2023

ilikefish69 said:
Dumb question, no2 being nitrite? I have an old API one laying around somewhere, does having 50-60 pounds in live rock help or hurt the extra ammonia presence?

water change to lower nutrient levels, at what point does that become recommended?

Yes nitrite, any sign of it will mean you had an increase in ammonia available in the system (not necessarily a new source just less competition as you killed a large amount of algae that was previously using it). Probably what caused the algae to take over in the first place, a good clean of rocks and sand bed can be useful at removing organic matter that is producing ammonia constantly.
more live rock can only help, water changes are only effective at lowering nitrates it won’t resolve your ammonia problem unless if you vacuum the sand bed at the same time.

what you may find in the days to come if you don’t solve the ammonia source is that you will see the Cyanobacteria or dinoflagellates take over the system due to only being in Check before by the nuisance algae (you have removed one consumer although you have the Cyanobacteria just waiting to take that space). You still need to resolve this issue to keep all the nuisances in check.

other methods to reduce ammonia is to keep good flow allowing for detritus (source of ammonia wile decomposing in the system) stay in suspense and removed via mechanical filtration, a effectively protein skimmer removing proteins (organic nutrients and source of ammonia) and carbon dosing that will in a way aid the growth and division of decomposing bacteria that for its turn will consume organic matter and trap those nutrients in they’re mass reducing the time that the organic matter stays in the system decomposing (releasing ammonia in the process) many folks only look at carbon dosing in a way to reduce nitrates and some phosphates not realising that carbon dosing also reduces nutrients this way. (Side effect may need to dose nitrates and phosphates for this benefits)
Obviously macro algaes are also a effective way to reduce ammonia although they are not resolving the root cause issues only competing with others for the ammonia unfortunately they may have been affected by the flux and not a good thing for you at this point.

the day that you realise that nitrates and phosphates means little to nuisance you may see the hobby in a different way and tackle issues with a different mentality. Nitrates and phosphates are only important for corals not to starve if ammonia (preferred form of nitrogen to coral and algae) is fully depleted and to aid the growth and division of beneficial bacteria (heterotrophic) heterotrophic bacteria is much different from chemotrophs and if they become limited by C N or P they can’t function.