Refugium idea

[Jayden K]

I am thinking of building a large tank, and I want to put a refugium in a 75 gal. I was thinking to make a pvc frame and then place a layer of window mesh on the bottom side of the pvc frame. From there put macro algea on the top of that screen. Would this be more effective, all the water would be forced to come on contact with the refugium vrs free floating algea ball. It would also be slightly slanted down to insure water gets through all of the algea. I also want to add a bunch of ceramic at the bottom and this style of refuge would slow the water down significantly.

 

[Subsea]

Is this for nutrient export? What is the ceramic for?

 

[Jayden K]

Is this for nutrient export? What is the ceramic for?

It is for nutrient export and the ceramic is ceramic media for biofiltration.

 

[Subsea]

It is for nutrient export and the ceramic is ceramic media for biofiltration.

So, the ceramic disk perform denitrification and the seaweed will provide for nutrient export. How big is your large tank?

 

[Subsea]

It is for nutrient export and the ceramic is ceramic media for biofiltration.

You are maximizing nutrient export. What livestock goes into the large tank on top?

After more than 50 years of Reefing, I have mature coral colonies that are the biofilter and I have to dose ammonia to keep up with nitrogen demand of the system.

 

[Jayden K]

So, the ceramic disk perform denitrification and the seaweed will provide for nutrient export. How big is your large tank?

It's for a 1500g display and a 2000g with sump

 

[Jayden K]

You are maximizing nutrient export. What livestock goes into the large tank on top?

After more than 50 years of Reefing, I have mature coral colonies that are the biofilter and I have to dose ammonia to keep up with nitrogen demand of the system.

It's going to be close to 200 fish, the corals will be added as frags though and I can have the light on for less time if it gets bad.

 

[Subsea]

It's going to be close to 200 fish, the corals will be added as frags though and I can have the light on for less time if it gets bad.

With that large of a fish load, I suggest a reverse flow ug filter to process nutrients with bacteria when lights are off your macro algae refugium. In fact, instead of window mesh under seaweed, establish reverse flow ug filter in your 75G macro algae refugium.

 

[GARRIGA]

One option is splitting the refugium this way one side is always lit and if large enough no need for biological filtration. Run each side on opposing light schedules until enough coral can handle the bio load during the day then can run both sides only at night.

Something often missed with algae is the benefit of stripping co2 and stabilizing higher pH. Which also means at some point if algae lit daytime then pH might go higher than desired.

I’m going to experiment with just lighting the refugium 24/7 and peg the lights to the pH where the lights turn off when pH exceeds my maximum desired. I’ve ran Pom Pom and GHA 24/7 with no ill affects. Ran various different plants in FW 24/7 also with no ill affects. Got the idea from pot growers who are constantly experimenting with increasing growth and budding.

 

[Jayden K]

With that large of a fish load, I suggest a reverse flow ug filter to process nutrients with bacteria when lights are off your macro algae refugium. In fact, instead of window mesh under seaweed, establish reverse flow ug filter in your 75G macro algae refugium.

Whats a reverse UG filter?

 

[Jayden K]

One option is splitting the refugium this way one side is always lit and if large enough no need for biological filtration. Run each side on opposing light schedules until enough coral can handle the bio load during the day then can run both sides only at night.

Something often missed with algae is the benefit of stripping co2 and stabilizing higher pH. Which also means at some point if algae lit daytime then pH might go higher than desired.

I’m going to experiment with just lighting the refugium 24/7 and peg the lights to the pH where the lights turn off when pH exceeds my maximum desired. I’ve ran Pom Pom Pom and GHA 24/7 with no ill affects. Ran various different plants in FW 24/7 also with no ill affects. Hit the idea from pot growers who are constantly experimenting with increasing growth and budding.

I was thinking of just using a regular grow light with a purple channel, that is connected to my apex that would turn off power to the lights when ph goes high.

 

[Subsea]

Whats a reverse UG filter?

Amazon product ASIN B0002AQ1S8
With your large fish load, if excess ammonia is a consideration, then a ug filter with the reverse flow helps keep it free of detritus buildup. So instead of uplift air bubbler tubes drawing water down into sandbed, install a power head on uplift tube and pump water down the uplift tube into the plenum and up thru the substrate.

 

[GARRIGA]

I was thinking of just using a regular grow light with a purple channel, that is connected to my apex that would turn off power to the lights when ph goes high.

That's what I've been promoting for a while. My concern mostly about excess co2 in the home than nutrient export with the latter something I rarely worry about.

 

[GARRIGA]

Amazon product ASIN B0002AQ1S8
With your large fish load, if excess ammonia is a consideration, then a ug filter with the reverse flow helps keep it free of detritus buildup. So instead of uplift air bubbler tubes drawing water down into sandbed, install a power head on uplift tube and pump water down the uplift tube into the plenum and up thru the substrate.

I believe the future of refugiums being the implementation of using an UG filter to draw detritus and decompose it into bio-available inorganics for the plants and doing reverse flow were it direct from the system likely best but if it's just an independent filter within the refugium then it might not help much as one could just stir the gravel to eliminate channeling and keep efficiency up while avoid dead spots that could turn into hydrogen sulfide. My focus being I want the detritus confined to the media sitting on top of the plate vs pushed back into the plants. Opposite thinking to why reverse flow UG were used in displays as it made maintenance easier and I've seen no evidence to support either flow direction causing more clogging or benefit.

Benefit of plumbing the plate to the system being one less pump to maintain and would replace socks as mechanical filtration with the caveat being the system will decompose detritus vs the keeper having to remove it and clean the socks.

Hopefully at some point I put my test tank back together as I have all the components ready to go and test this theory out. Low maintenance being the goal. Reefers get way to worried about keeping those socks sparkling clean and in reality nature has never been that clean. It just solves itself and this is where system design around matching nature being my priority vs being the tank maid.

 

[GARRIGA]

BTW, those blurple grow lights are efficient at using every watt but aesthetically not pleasing to all and often hard to identify if the algae is prospering or dying. Might want to consider full spectrum or what the hobby calls white light at a higher intensity unless wattage draw a concern and then add a white light that can be used to occasionally view the progress. Green under purple turning white hard to observe otherwise.

 

[Subsea]

I believe the future of refugiums being the implementation of using an UG filter to draw detritus and decompose it into bio-available inorganics for the plants and doing reverse flow were it direct from the system likely best but if it's just an independent filter within the refugium then it might not help much as one could just stir the gravel to eliminate channeling and keep efficiency up while avoid dead spots that could turn into hydrogen sulfide. My focus being I want the detritus confined to the media sitting on top of the plate vs pushed back into the plants. Opposite thinking to why reverse flow UG were used in displays as it made maintenance easier and I've seen no evidence to support either flow direction causing more clogging or benefit.

Benefit of plumbing the plate to the system being one less pump to maintain and would replace socks as mechanical filtration with the caveat being the system will decompose detritus vs the keeper having to remove it and clean the socks.

Hopefully at some point I put my test tank back together as I have all the components ready to go and test this theory out. Low maintenance being the goal. Reefers get way to worried about keeping those socks sparkling clean and in reality nature has never been that clean. It just solves itself and this is where system design around matching nature being my priority vs being the tank maid.

“I believe the future of refugiums being the implementation of using an UG filter to draw detritus and decompose it into bio-available inorganics“

This is interesting. However, I don’t think your ug filter in refugium would produce inorganics.

I don’t wear socks in my refugium nor do I light it up. I run cryptic refugiums with sponges that slough off carbon rich detritus (organic) that becomes food for the microbial loop.

As I read the first paragraph , I get the impression that the substrate with macroalgae holdfast will consume nutrients thru roots in substrate. Macro algae (seaweed) absorbs nutrients thru surface area, sea plants thru it’s roots.

If you have a thread that discusses your concept, Please provide a link.

 

[GARRIGA]

“I believe the future of refugiums being the implementation of using an UG filter to draw detritus and decompose it into bio-available inorganics“

This is interesting. However, I don’t think your ug filter in refugium would produce inorganics.

I don’t wear socks in my refugium nor do I light it up. I run cryptic refugiums with sponges that slough off carbon rich detritus (organic) that becomes food for the microbial loop.

As I read the first paragraph , I get the impression that the substrate with macroalgae holdfast will consume nutrients thru roots in substrate. Macro algae (seaweed) absorbs nutrients thru surface area, sea plants thru it’s roots.

If you have a thread that discusses your concept, Please provide a link.

Not talking to using roots. I grasp seaweed has none. I'm speaking about decomposing organics into inorganics making that available for the algae vs having detritus trapped in the algae.

When I mention plants I'm just generalizing the fact macroalgae and plants to me behave in the same manner in that they perform photosynthesis and consume organics and certain metals. Plus the Caribbean loaded with mostly sponges these days as our corals have dwindled due to climate and pollution therefore based on our laws might make collecting easy enough for me.

Your past comments about sponges has intrigued me and doing more research and not just non-photosynthetic but also those I can populate within the display. Some to me rival corals and would help strip co2 as well as balance nutrients.

As far as the cryptic form, likely added post Fuge being most practical although trying to understand how they filter out particulates as that might change the orientation and use them perhaps as a prefilter prior to the UG. Canister still most pragmatic as I'm designing it and what we've spoken about before.

 

[Subsea]

It is for nutrient export and the ceramic is ceramic media for biofiltration.

@Randy Holmes-Farley
Just posted on another thread that too much nitrification is not good. Plants & coral prefer ammonia uptake and fish can handle 2ppm of ammonia.

In my research the ceramic media is wasted money. Unless you maintain it by keeping it’s surface clean, it will experience biofouling.

 

[Jayden K]

For my filters I plan to run 2 filter mat rollers, 2 protien skimmer, then the heaters then the gfo and carbon and the uv and then the refugium and biofilter.

 

[Jayden K]

I don't really understand a reverse UG still. Does it go in the main display?