Removing sand to get rid of amphidinium dinos

[k log(omega)]

Anyone able to beat amphidinium by removing their sand? I’ve tried a whole bunch of methods and nothing seems to work. I have a pretty heavy diatom bloom and stable parameters at 0.1 ppm phosphate and 10-15 ppm nitrate. Been dosing silicates and have a bunch of diatoms but they’re not outcompeting dino in the sand. I just siphoned some dino’s out through a sock into a filter bucket and scraped one side of glass and let the diatoms settle into the sand and mixed them in a little. If this doesn’t show progress i’m thinking of removing my sand, still dosing silicate to induce diatoms, and probably more bacteria, phytoplankton, etc

 

[Spare time]

I would just siphon the sand rather than removing it. Removing the sand might just remove things that eat dinos or compete with them.

 

[dwest]

I fought amphidinium for almost a year fighting with all the methods you probably have read about. Then I removed my sand and saw an almost immediate improvement and dinos gone a month or so later.

 

[k log(omega)]

I fought amphidinium for almost a year fighting with all the methods you probably have read about. Then I removed my sand and saw an almost immediate improvement and dinos gone a month or so later.

they really only seem to live in the sand. i think i have some prorocentrum mixed in there too. i can definitely see some competitors like diatoms in there under the microscope, but these dinos replicate so fast, even when i siphon them out. i think where i made the mistake was a couple months ago i topped off my sandbed with rinsed dead sand. probably already had a bit of dinos, but this extra open real estate gave them more space to populate.

did you see any of yours move up to the rocks?

did you remove sand all at once, or slowly over time?

ever end up replacing the sand? i’m thinking about cycling some in a separate container with some live sand mixed in and bacteria and feeding it regularly to replace my current sand post dinos if i end up pulling it.

did you continue any other treatments after removing the sand?

sorry about all the questions lol i’ve also tried most of the major methods people post without much luck

 

[Timfish]

Did you set up your system with sterile rock or rock only seeded with nitrifying bacteria?

 

[k log(omega)]

Did you set up your system with sterile rock or rock only seeded with nitrifying bacteria?

I did. Gave the rock a vinegar bath, i think i might have “cooked” it for a few weeks in a plastic tub with some bacteria, then added to the tank with more bacteria. tank is almost 3 years old, although i moved it to my new house about a year ago. been having dino/cyanobacteria problems since summer when i think i over bubble scrubbed the tank for literally no reason at all and probably destroyed my nutrients. surprisingly after the move the tank was the best it had ever been for a while until i decided to try a bunch of new changes this summer lol

 

[slingfox]

I have been in a 2-3 week battle against dinos. The situation has been improving using manual removal/UV/bacteria dosing/silica dosing/run tank at high temps/get phosphate and nitrates to appropriate levels. What I did yesterday was remove the top layer of sand from my entire tank. That also ended up removing 15% of my water volume. I replaced the water volume with fresh saltwater since when I filtered the water through a 10 micron sock some dinos and cyano got through. I then rinsed the sand for 30-45 minutes until it ran mostly clear. I put the sand back in and today the tank is looking the best it had in a month. I did small sand removal in the past but the more full effort removal + cleaning yesterday is much more effective a day later. After the sand cleaning I did a half dose of Dr. Tim's Waste Away.

 

[slingfox]

Note also that for the sand removal I did yesterday I used a siphon hose. Going forward I intend to use a power gravel vac (there are several on Amazon for $30-$50). I will test the gravel vac later this week by cleaning my sump.

 

[k log(omega)]

I have been in a 2-3 week battle against dinos. The situation has been improving using manual removal/UV/bacteria dosing/silica dosing/run tank at high temps/get phosphate and nitrates to appropriate levels. What I did yesterday was remove the top layer of sand from my entire tank. That also ended up removing 15% of my water volume. I replaced the water volume with fresh saltwater since when I filtered the water through a 10 micron sock some dinos and cyano got through. I then rinsed the sand for 30-45 minutes until it ran mostly clear. I put the sand back in and today the tank is looking the best it had in a month. I did small sand removal in the past but the more full effort removal + cleaning yesterday is much more effective a day later. After the sand cleaning I did a half dose of Dr. Tim's Waste Away.

i like this strategy. one thing i’ve found may or may not help when siphoning through a filter sock is putting a UV in the bucket that i’m siphoning into. that way it zaps anything that passes through the sock and I can reuse the water. not sure if it fully works but it makes me feel better about dumping that water back in

 

[k log(omega)]

Note also that for the sand removal I did yesterday I used a siphon hose. Going forward I intend to use a power gravel vac (there are several on Amazon for $30-$50). I will test the gravel vac later this week by cleaning my sump.

i’m thinking if i remove the sand i might run bare bottom until i get the dino’s in check. i find that diatoms substantially outcompete dino’s on my glass. the sand is where the dino’s seem to win. so bare bottom might help the diatoms finally win. then eventually i may just get new sand and mix it with some live sand and run it in a separate container, feeding it over time etc, and then slowly add back in. this is my last resort though, not sure if i’m there yet.

 

[Jason_MrFrags]

have you tried lights out for a couple days?

 

[k log(omega)]

have you tried lights out for a couple days?

I have not, but I don't want to kill off the diatoms that I'm growing so I haven't wanted to make that tradeoff. How long would you recommend?

 

[slingfox]

i’m thinking if i remove the sand i might run bare bottom until i get the dino’s in check. i find that diatoms substantially outcompete dino’s on my glass. the sand is where the dino’s seem to win. so bare bottom might help the diatoms finally win. then eventually i may just get new sand and mix it with some live sand and run it in a separate container, feeding it over time etc, and then slowly add back in. this is my last resort though, not sure if i’m there yet.

Sure that makes sense. The reason I added my sand back in after 45 minutes of scrubbing in a bucket was I wanted to have all major factors in the tank while I was doing the regime of low light + scrubbing + dosing. The hope is the other microorganisms will be able to gain a foothold as I do everything I can to knock down dinos.

On my sand bed once dinos started to diminish then cyano started to gain a foothold (a positive sign in this circumstance). It is almost 24 hours later now and nothing notable has grown on the sand yet. After previous light touch sand siphoning dinos would be back the next morning and within 24-48 hours would have a mat of growth all over. The more comprehensive removal and scrubbing looking good so far but only time will tell. I assume this dino battle may last a while.

 

[k log(omega)]

Sure that makes sense. The reason I added my sand back in after 45 minutes of scrubbing in a bucket was I wanted to have all major factors in the tank while I was doing the regime of low light + scrubbing + dosing. The hope is the other microorganisms will be able to gain a foothold as I do everything I can to knock down dinos.

On my sand bed once dinos started to diminish then cyano started to gain a foothold (a positive sign in this circumstance). It is almost 24 hours later now and nothing notable has grown on the sand yet. After previous light touch sand siphoning dinos would be back the next morning and within 24-48 hours would have a mat of growth all over. The more comprehensive removal and scrubbing looking good so far but only time will tell. I assume this dino battle may last a while.

are you checking under a microscope at all? i've managed to knock down a lot of mats, although i imagine if i stopped manual removal for a few days they would come back, but if i check sand samples under microscope in those areas i still find a substantial dino concentration. it was only until after i scraped a thick diatom layer off my glass and attempted to mix it into the sand that I finally saw a higher concentration of diatoms within the sand, however it seems the dinos have not started to dwindle from that, although they are sometimes not visible to the naked eye.

 

[slingfox]

are you checking under a microscope at all? i've managed to knock down a lot of mats, although i imagine if i stopped manual removal for a few days they would come back, but if i check sand samples under microscope in those areas i still find a substantial dino concentration. it was only until after i scraped a thick diatom layer off my glass and attempted to mix it into the sand that I finally saw a higher concentration of diatoms within the sand, however it seems the dinos have not started to dwindle from that, although they are sometimes not visible to the naked eye.

Yes, I have the $89 AmScope student microscope from Amazon which comes packaged with glass slides. I previously tried a similarly priced microscope with an LCD screen but the magnification for the LCD screen version was not great since it is used for working on circuit boards rather than biology work. As the dino situation has improved I am seeing dinos mixed in with algae, cyano and some diatoms. There is definitely less dinos now but it has taken daily scrubbing and dosing. The comprehensive sand clean has made a huge difference on the sand. The main competition I am trying to encourage for the dinos is bacteria dosing (I am alternating daily dosing of Dr. Tim's Waste Away and MicroBacter7) and silica dosing.

Note also I am running my tank at 83 degrees since the high temperature apparently makes it harder for dinos to compete. I plan to bring temperature back to 77 by end of week if dinos don't regrow vigorously on the sand. Dinos on the rockwork has diminished significantly. At some point I want to stop scrubbing the rockwork since my cleanup crew needs something to eat.

 

[k log(omega)]

Yes, I have the $89 AmScope student microscope from Amazon which comes packaged with glass slides. I previously tried a similarly priced microscope with an LCD screen but the magnification for the LCD screen version was not great since it is used for working on circuit boards rather than biology work. As the dino situation has improved I am seeing dinos mixed in with algae, cyano and some diatoms. There is definitely less dinos now but it has taken daily scrubbing and dosing. The comprehensive sand clean has made a huge difference on the sand. The main competition I am trying to encourage for the dinos is bacteria dosing (I am alternating daily dosing of Dr. Tim's Waste Away and MicroBacter7) and silica dosing.

sounds like we are going about it very similarly. i’m going to try to take the top layer of sand and rinse/replace after work today and see how that goes. i’d hate to pull my whole sandbed and remove all the pods, collates, and diatoms i’ve spent the past few weeks growing in there just to still have the dinos lol. i’ll let you know how the rinse goes on my end, thanks a lot for the advice!

 

[slingfox]

sounds like we are going about it very similarly. i’m going to try to take the top layer of sand and rinse/replace after work today and see how that goes. i’d hate to pull my whole sandbed and remove all the pods, collates, and diatoms i’ve spent the past few weeks growing in there just to still have the dinos lol. i’ll let you know how the rinse goes on my end, thanks a lot for the advice!

Yeah just take off the top layer of sand while the lights on on so the dinos are out and on the surface. Discard the nasty water water comes with the siphoning. Rinse out the same throughly. I did 30+ rinsing with garden hose water and then 2 rinsings with fresh saltwater and put the sand back in. This came along with a 15% water change.

After the cleaned sand + water change my surviving 5 hermit crabs ran around like crazy on the sand for the first time in a month. I also saw my pythos crab appear for the first time in two weeks. Today my very small handful of corals on drag racks opened up again.

 

[k log(omega)]

Yeah just take off the top layer of sand while the lights on on so the dinos are out and on the surface. Discard the nasty water water comes with the siphoning. Rinse out the same throughly. I did 30+ rinsing with garden hose water and then 2 rinsings with fresh saltwater and put the sand back in. This came along with a 15% water change.

After the cleaned sand + water change my surviving 5 hermit crabs ran around like crazy on the sand for the first time in a month. I also saw my pythos crab appear for the first time in two weeks. Today my very small handful of corals on drag racks opened up again.

this might be the step i'm missing!

 

[k log(omega)]

Yeah just take off the top layer of sand while the lights on on so the dinos are out and on the surface. Discard the nasty water water comes with the siphoning. Rinse out the same throughly. I did 30+ rinsing with garden hose water and then 2 rinsings with fresh saltwater and put the sand back in. This came along with a 15% water change.

After the cleaned sand + water change my surviving 5 hermit crabs ran around like crazy on the sand for the first time in a month. I also saw my pythos crab appear for the first time in two weeks. Today my very small handful of corals on drag racks opened up again.

just had another idea. i think while i’m doing the sw rinse of the sand, i’m gonna mix some bacteria, phytoplankton, and silicates in there in hopes some will stick to the sand and make it harder for the dino to repopulate it. we’ll see how this works out

 

[dwest]

they really only seem to live in the sand. i think i have some prorocentrum mixed in there too. i can definitely see some competitors like diatoms in there under the microscope, but these dinos replicate so fast, even when i siphon them out. i think where i made the mistake was a couple months ago i topped off my sandbed with rinsed dead sand. probably already had a bit of dinos, but this extra open real estate gave them more space to populate.

did you see any of yours move up to the rocks?

did you remove sand all at once, or slowly over time?

ever end up replacing the sand? i’m thinking about cycling some in a separate container with some live sand mixed in and bacteria and feeding it regularly to replace my current sand post dinos if i end up pulling it.

did you continue any other treatments after removing the sand?

sorry about all the questions lol i’ve also tried most of the major methods people post without much luck

1. Most of my amphidinium stayed on the sand but it was in the rocks too in a lesser amount.

2. I removed sand weekly with water changes. I never removed all of it as I can’t get behind all the rocks. But 80-90% got removed.

3. I replaced a bit of the sand, maybe 10% or so. But stopped. The event was almost 4 years ago and haven’t added back any sand in 2 or 3 years.

4. I kept UV going for 6 months or so after dinos were gone. Then stopped that too.

I‘ll add my latest FTS