Return flow ?

[Bluelobstor]

Prob would be more effective separate because it is reskimming clean water but still shouldn't affect water level in skimmer. Can u take a gallon jug and let the return fill it up count how longs it takes in minutes or fraction of then multiply by 60 to get gph then do same with output of skimmer and compare.

 

[Supramike]

I sure can let me finish with these cars. And I'll do it. The skimmer might be a task though. But I'll see what I can do.

 

[Bluelobstor]

Be interesting to see results as its is a more accurate way of knowing your true flow rate

 

[Supramike]

Be interesting to see results as its is a more accurate way of knowing your true flow rate

Well I didn't have time to do much the boys wanted to go to movies and I just got home. I'll give it a wack tomorrow. But I did take a foot off the return line and it didn't change a thing. I'll get that gph tomorrow after work.

 

[Bluelobstor]

Family first what movie did you see

 

[Bluelobstor]

3600/the number of seconds it takes to fill one gallon will give you gph.

 

[Bluelobstor]

Did you ever find out what your flow was

 

[TJ's Reef]

First off I'll say that I am an outspoken fan/proponent of High-flow Sumps and have been for 25+ years. Then say the whole 'match your return flow to your Skimmer' statement is complete nonsense that has been regurgitated for years. Your Skimmer will work better with a much higher flow as in 15-30x or more as you want it to capture fresh nutrient rich water not to recirculate already partially cleaned water. The other mis-belief to matching Skimmer pump to flow is that your flow rate has no bearing on your Skimmer's pump at all, it is what it is gph wise period. I can honestly say that everything is healthier/more efficient in a high-flow setup from mechanical to pod population to Macro Algae health/growth.
As has been already stated above you should have your Skimmer pickup and return from same first section to keep water level constant. This is also where you would want to have your Heater and monitoring probes for same reason.


Cheers, Todd

 

[Supramike]

Family first what movie did you see

We saw ninja turtles. And I haven't had a chance to get it done yet. Work has been kicking me in the but 12+ hour days. I'm beat when I get home. If I can't get it before weekend I'll do it on the weekend lol.

 

[Supramike]

First off I'll say that I am an outspoken fan/proponent of High-flow Sumps and have been for 25+ years. Then say the whole 'match your return flow to your Skimmer' statement is complete nonsense that has been regurgitated for years. Your Skimmer will work better with a much higher flow as in 15-30x or more as you want it to capture fresh nutrient rich water not to recirculate already partially cleaned water. The other mis-belief to matching Skimmer pump to flow is that your flow rate has no bearing on your Skimmer's pump at all, it is what it is gph wise period. I can honestly say that everything is healthier/more efficient in a high-flow setup from mechanical to pod population to Macro Algae health/growth.
As has been already stated above you should have your Skimmer pickup and return from same first section to keep water level constant. This is also where you would want to have your Heater and monitoring probes for same reason.


Cheers, Todd

Not sure if I'm understanding the last part. Are you saying that I should have my skimmer pick up and exit in the same chamber?

 

[Bluelobstor]

First off I'll say that I am an outspoken fan/proponent of High-flow Sumps and have been for 25+ years. Then say the whole 'match your return flow to your Skimmer' statement is complete nonsense that has been regurgitated for years. Your Skimmer will work better with a much higher flow as in 15-30x or more as you want it to capture fresh nutrient rich water not to recirculate already partially cleaned water. The other mis-belief to matching Skimmer pump to flow is that your flow rate has no bearing on your Skimmer's pump at all, it is what it is gph wise period. I can honestly say that everything is healthier/more efficient in a high-flow setup from mechanical to pod population to Macro Algae health/growth.
As has been already stated above you should have your Skimmer pickup and return from same first section to keep water level constant. This is also where you would want to have your Heater and monitoring probes for same reason.


Cheers, Todd

Each to their own. You say that you want to have a higher flow rate so you don't recirculate partially dirty water, yet you also say to have the skimmer exit into the same chamber as the skimmer which will most assuredly cause the skimmer to receive partially cleaned water so I don't understand the problem. Also having the flow so much higher than the skimmer will cause the skimmer to not capture all the water that is flowing thru the sump. As skimmers are not 100% effective I don't see a problem with reskimming partially cleaned water, if there was then why do some of the higher end skimmers have a recirculation chamber. I actually prefer a slower flow then skimmer with the exit into the same chamber. Flow has no bearing on temp or probes and power heads can always be added to fuge to increase flow and flow in fuge should be based on what's in there anyways. This is just my opinion.

 

[TJ's Reef]

Sorry for the somewhat harsh response above but I have heard this unfounded argument of matching the flow rate to the Skimmer for to many years and the science does not back it. I do have and recommend having Skimmer intake and output with the same/first sump chamber to maintain consistent water level and for my setup have Skimmer pump situated almost directly below overflow dump (back) and outlet on opposite side (front) directing towards baffle to next chamber/Fuge. With a high flow there is very little recirculation. Skimmers all work off of 'Dwell Time' and Recirc Skimmers take advantage by recirculating instead of added height to reactor chamber. There are indeed many ways to run a Sump and mechanical equipment within to keeping a successful Reeftank but certain procedures/setups will always out perform others based purely on science/mechanics. With Skimmer tech you will always get better foam production with the dirtiest or most protein laden water this is the science based facts not my opinions, so have just followed good data/info.

Cheers, Todd

 

[Bluelobstor]

We saw ninja turtles. And I haven't had a chance to get it done yet. Work has been kicking me in the but 12+ hour days. I'm beat when I get home. If I can't get it before weekend I'll do it on the weekend lol.

was it good kids have been bugging me to take them. I understand not wanting to do anything after work. I have long days at work too. For all practical purposes you want the return to fill the jug faster than the skimmer.

 

[gtbarsi]

Ok I think I understand what you are trying to do, unfortunately I do not think you can do it with your current plumbing.

If your skimmer pump is drawing 1100 GPH, your drain is not able to keep up with it. Per the overflow calculator on reef central you would need a return with an internal diameter 1.37 inches of to draw 1100 gph. Ideally you are going to want more than that to factor in evap in the first chamber you would need a drain with a inside diameter of at least 1.43 inches for 1200 gph. Are you able to upgrade your drain bulkhead, or add a 2nd drain?

If not then you have no choice you have to setup your skimmer with the pump and return going to the same sump section. Once you do that you should no longer have issues with the flow. As to the skimmer going crazy, like many things with these things you will need to give it a day or three with the gate valve all the way open and tweak the air intake until things get normalized.

The other thing I just noticed is that it looks like water is able to travel under the baffle between the 1st and 2nd chambers. Why did you do this? If you do not have it setup to overflow you will never have the general progression from high to low that most sumps have where the high side is where the drain(s) are and the low side is where the return pump(s) are. As it stands your 1st and 2nd chamber would actually be considered 1 chamber.

The one thing I would do with your return pump is clean it and if you can simplify / minimize the plumbing for the return, avoid and 90 degree elbow fittings, and if you have a restrictive nozzle on your return try running with out it for a little bit.

I personally prefer the method of matching your sump flow to your skimmer, many people including myself have stated why we like this design. Fortunately with aquarium filtration there are a number of successful ways to do things, it is up to you to decide which ones you want to use. If everyone's tank was the same then we would not be on this great web site sharing our successes, failures, concerns, and knowledge.

 

[Bluelobstor]

Ok I think I understand what you are trying to do, unfortunately I do not think you can do it with your current plumbing.

If your skimmer pump is drawing 1100 GPH, your drain is not able to keep up with it. Per the overflow calculator on reef central you would need a return with an internal diameter 1.37 inches of to draw 1100 gph. Ideally you are going to want more than that to factor in evap in the first chamber you would need a drain with a inside diameter of at least 1.43 inches for 1200 gph. Are you able to upgrade your drain bulkhead, or add a 2nd drain?

If not then you have no choice to setup your skimmer with the pump and return going to the same sump section. Once you do that you should no longer have issues with the flow. As to the skimmer going crazy, like many things with these things you will need to give it a day or three with the gate valve all the way open and tweak the air intake until things get normalized.

The one thing I would do with your return pump is clean it and if you can simplify / minimize the plumbing for the return, avoid and 90 degree elbow fittings, and if you have a restrictive nozzle on your return try running with out it for a little bit.

I haven't used the reef central calculators but if he was running a full siphon he would get faster flow than the calculator says. But you are right it might not be possible to reach a high enough flow but diverting some flow from the skimmer should compensate for the lack of flow.

 

[gtbarsi]

I was editing my post after I noticed something. Can you tell me why you did that with the baffle?

 

[gtbarsi]

I haven't used the reef central calculators but if he was running a full siphon he would get faster flow than the calculator says. But you are right it might not be possible to reach a high enough flow but diverting some flow from the skimmer should compensate for the lack of flow.

Assuming that you are correct that at full siphon the 1.25" drain can supply at least 1100 gph, then you definitely need a new return pump. I think you have more head loss than you realize. Try the head loss calc at (Head Loss).

I tried it with the following which I gathered from your post (I may be off)
Vertical: 4
Horizontal : 1
Pipe diameter: 0.75
# of 90 degree: 1 (your T)
# of pipe exits: 2
# of pipe entrances: 1

With the MAG18 it calculated a head loss of 9.5' with a flow of 874 gph
With the MAG24 it calculated a head loss of 11.58' with a flow of 1030 gph

While I do not claim to know the accuracy of this calculator it does suggest you probably have a lot more head loss than you expect. You really need to get the return flow up to 1100 if you want to run your skimmer the way you have it setup in your sump.

 

[Bluelobstor]

Assuming that you are correct that at full siphon the 1.25" drain can supply at least 1100 gph, then you definitely need a new return pump. I think you have more head loss than you realize. Try the head loss calc at (Head Loss).

I tried it with the following which I gathered from your post (I may be off)
Vertical: 4
Horizontal : 1
Pipe diameter: 0.75
# of 90 degree: 1 (your T)
# of pipe exits: 2
# of pipe entrances: 1

With the MAG18 it calculated a head loss of 9.5' with a flow of 874 gph
With the MAG24 it calculated a head loss of 11.58' with a flow of 1030 gph

While I do not claim to know the accuracy of this calculator it does suggest you probably have a lot more head loss than you expect. You really need to get the return flow up to 1100 if you want to run your skimmer the way you have it setup in your sump.

+1 I too think you have more head pressure than you think which is why I mentioned filling a gallon jug to figure your true flow rate

 

[Supramike]

I was editing my post after I noticed something. Can you tell me why you did that with the baffle?

Where it goes under? It came like that. With the skimmer everything returns to normal with the high side on the drain and the low on the return

 

[Supramike]

was it good kids have been bugging me to take them. I understand not wanting to do anything after work. I have long days at work too. For all practical purposes you want the return to fill the jug faster than the skimmer.

Ya I liked it the boys loved it. Coughs them sitting on the edge of their seat. Witch means to me that try like it. Normally my youngest will fall asleep if te movie doesn't catch him.