Return jet location??

mpjmeyer · Jan 4, 2017

Getting ready to drill my 65 gallon in wall tank. It is being installed in a corner so the front and 1 side will be visible while the other 2 sides will be in the fish room. I have a sump under the tank. On the side of the tank not visible, I will have an MP40QD for flow. Getting ready to drill for the Synergy Shadow overflow which will be in the center of the back glass. I'll also be drilling for the return jet or jets. Where would be the best location for the return jet?

Should I go with option 1 or option 2. The return flow will be powered by the Mag Drive 9.5

mcarroll · Jan 4, 2017

Just my 2¢ but...

Unless it was impossible, I would come over the back with the return vs cutting up the tank AND losing the flexibility to do it differently down the road when you decide to change things up.

Also, the mp40 runs out of steam at about 24" away from the pump. There is flow past that, but not very meaningful flow.

I would suggest a pump with better reach (which would also be significantly less expensive) for the configuration you show, or maybe consider 2-4 mp10's across the long unexposed side instead of the mp40 on the short side.

What are the actual dimensions of your 65?

Also, a Mag 9.5 seems like a boatload of pump (in $$, watts and size) for a tiny tank.

Are you shooting for a lot more than 2x - 4x flow for some reason?

What's the plumbing like in between the tank and the sump?

mpjmeyer · Jan 4, 2017

The mag pump also flows water to the refugium by plumbing a T in the return piping. I was considering an MP10 in place of the "option 1" location on the tank. I'll get the exact dimensions tonight when I get home

Ryan Hunter · Jan 4, 2017

What are you planning on stocking? I would agree and try and go over the top of the tank with the return plumbing especially since it is in a fish room and I would probably do two returns option #1 and #2.

mcarroll · Jan 4, 2017

Flow

Is it a standard 65 or custom? Standard is a tall 50 Gallon, or: 36 x 18 x 24"H

Does that sound right?

If you're a fan of the mp40 and just want to use it, that alternate confiig you mentioned is closer to correct – it may work fine. The mp10 is good for a solid 12" cube of space where the mp40 goes to about 24" cube in the same way. However your glass may be too thick for the mp10.

Check out Ecotech's VorTech Flow Calculator.

Keep in mind their recommendations tend to be optimistic vs realistic. For example, they say with the graphic that an mp40 will just be OK on your tank for SPS, but that's under ideal conditions. No tank with has ideal flow conditions, so plan accordingly. (i.e. the mp10, or something)

You might already feel committed beyond this conversation, and that's OK if true, but.....at >$600, that Vortech combo is definitely not the best use of budget – if budget is limited and you're just after good flow.

What I'd suggest for consideration is almost the opposite of what you've selected, but just to propose another setup that would work very well (assuming my dimensions are close)...

A pair of Tunze Turbelle® nanostream® 6045's ($78 each) would make a really nice beginning for a tidal flow simulation – corals would love it. You could run them from your preferred location on the short wall (either, really) and position them anywhere they'd be the most out-of-view. As a bonus, they would only cost you $150 to get started. You still have a ton of budget left to add another one or two pumps, whether up front or as the tank grows in.

Just to characterize the "$600 flow situation" more completely, you could consider the following combos that would also cost around $600 or less, but give much much better performance.

Four Turbelle® nanostream® 6045's is only $300 total. It's AC powered, but don't give this combo short-shrift – it's excellent!
Three Turbelle® nanostream® 6055's (basically a more powerful, controllable 6045) is only $550.
Two Turbelle® nanostream® 6040's and two 6055's is only $524.
Four 6040's (controllable, transverse-style gyre pump) is only $560.
Two 6045's plus one Turbelle® stream 3 is only $506.
Two 6040's plus one 6150 is only $630.

Ok, that last one is only five dollars cheaper but it would be a bomb setup. The Stream 3 is on the large size for the tank, but it can be placed anywhere so I say it's worth considering. Any of those "kits" could be deployed a little at a time if needed.

mpjmeyer · Jan 4, 2017

My tank is 48" long. I already own the MP40QD powerhead along with the module to control it along with the Radion lights with the Apex. I have the Top Fin 55 gallon tank, but when I insert the inner dimensions into a water calculator, it comes to 67.3 gallons..and that's leaving an extra inch from the rim...weird. Don't know if Top Fin messed up or if they under calculate that much

mcarroll · Jan 4, 2017

Dang....

mcarroll · Jan 4, 2017

48" is even worse for the mp40....you'll need at least two more mp10's or a rear-mounted (#1 position) mp40 on the far end.

:eek::eek::eek::eek: That's $700 to $1000 wrapped up just in flow.

I don't know if you have a lot of psychic capital wrapped up in the Ecotech control system, but you can see the economics I laid out – it's not favorable. And it gets worse when you throw the 48" factor in there.

All of the config's I suggested would still be worth considering, but a set of four 6055's or 6045's would be my preferred setup for a wide/low tank like that. And either one leaves you with a ton of cash in your pocket.

Performance-wise you'd also be on-top with one of these setups vs the Ecotech setup. (Pumps are more out-of-sight, better pump speeds for detritus lifting, etc.)

However, if the budget (and minor performance issues) of the all-Ecotech setup doesn't bother you, then go for it. :)

MaiReef · Jan 4, 2017

Why not plumb both for the return and split the power?

mpjmeyer · Jan 4, 2017

What if I added an MP10QD where option 1 is and put the return jet where option 2 is...would that be suffice? I was able to snag the MP40 from ebay awhile back at a great deal and it had never been used which is why I went that route, plus I like how it doesn't take up much space in the tank...not that a powerhead takes up much space as it is.

mcarroll · Jan 4, 2017

Return Pump

Let's assume:

4' of head pressure from the sump water level to the top of the return
5' of total plumbing length
[display size x 4] GPH of flow, or about 260 GPH.
(We'll round up to 300 for the computations, but anything as low as 2x (130 GPH) would still be acceptable and get the job done.)
One outlet into the tank
One standard 90º elbow

From http://www.freecalc.com/fric.htm it looks like either 3/4" or 1" plumbing would be OK and not cause much additional head pressure. (1/2" plumbing would add about another two feet of head pressure.)

Sticking with Danner pumps....

The 9.5 manual has the flow chart:
http://www.dannermfg.com/Store/images/instructions/ZG100.pdf

The 9.5 would be delivering about 800 GPH of actual flow in this setup. You will have noise and bubble issues AND too big of a pump and power bill. :)

Consider that a Mag 3 or 5 (manual and flow chart)would give your sump all the flow it needs.

Mag 9.5 – 95 watts – about $120.
Mag 3 – 35 watts – about $70

And to boot, you only get 800 GPH of flow....$120-$70 = $50.

If you spend that $50 on a powerhead instead of a bigger return you'd easily get twice the flow in-tank and only use less than 10 watts.

Go with the Mag 3 for the best economy, or at most the Mag 5.

mcarroll · Jan 4, 2017

mpjmeyer said:
What if I added an MP10QD where option 1 is and put the return jet where option 2 is...would that be suffice? I was able to snag the MP40 from ebay awhile back at a great deal and it had never been used which is why I went that route, plus I like how it doesn't take up much space in the tank...not that a powerhead takes up much space as it is.

This is good news!

I know it's a direction switch and a bit of a homework assignment, but in all seriousness I would re-sell the mp40 – you didn't buy new so you should be able to get 90-100% of your money back out of it.

Also, I didn't think about this (regarding your long/low tank) until now....if you were planning on having a sand bed, the mp40 is effectively ruled out in such a low tank. Once you get it running strong enough to get that 24" of flow, your sand bed under/in front of the pump will be blowing all over the place.

mpjmeyer · Jan 4, 2017

I purchased the sump from lifereef and it came with the return pump. Since I added the refugium to the bill, Jeff said he always upgrades the pump to the 9.5 because it supplies both the tank and refugium.