Reverse osmosis and hole-in-the-head disease

anticlinal

New Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 14, 2023
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Perhaps this is off-topic, but I don't know of another form so oriented towards water chemistry in aquaria, so I'm posting here. Worse, it's freshwater, but bear with me.

I have >40 years experience keeping fish. I am employed as a chemist, and have an extensive background in analytical chemistry, and have what I would consider a strong understanding of water chemistry. But I'm stumped.

I have oscars, and they get hole-in-the-head disease. It's been in remission for several years now. However, there is one commonality: when water parameters start to go "bad" (by whatever metric), the larger one gets these opalescent, hazy white spots on his head. I fix it, and it goes away. Oddly, they appear in late November every year for reasons I can't figure out.

However, most recently, I've been trying to lower the TDS; it's about 550 ppm, from the tap water we have. Here's the weird part: every time I try to lower the TDS by replacing the tank water with RO- even over the course of several days to drop it to ~480 from 550- the hazy spots appear, and I know if I continue, the fish will get erosions.

The pH is high (just south of 8.0), the filtration is strong, water quality and clarity is good, other than a bit of nitrate straight out of the tap. Of course, at 550 ppm TDS and pH of almost 8, moving the pH with bisulfate is a monumental task. Supplementation with magnesium sulfate doesn't seem to help too much, if at all. The fish eat strongly, even when affected by erosions.

For the life of me, I can't figure out what's triggering the advent of the disease by using RO. I feed it straight from the RO unit into the sump, trickling it in a few mL at a time into a 120-gallon tank with ~15 gallons of sump volume.

Normally at this stage I give up and go back to 100% treated tap water, but I'm going to try replacing a few gallons a day with RO that has passed through another aquarium I have, drip-fed into the 120-gallon system, so see if it's an acclimatization thing.

If anyone has suggestions as to what to try, or what could be responsible as regards the RO system, I'm wide open to recommendations. I've been fighting this for years.
 

MarineandReef Jaron

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 9, 2022
Messages
534
Reaction score
483
Location
Tempe Arizona
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Welcome to Reef2Reef. While this is a saltwater forum there are many of us that have had freshwater experience. We really don't know what causes Hole in Head / Lateral Line Erosion. What we do know is that it has never been observed in the wild but is observed in captivity and there are some studies that show a correlation between excessive/unwashed carbon and Lateral Line erosion.

From personal experience with marine fish. Lateral Line Erosion happens the most in low-salinity tanks with fish that have a poor diet. I have seen Lateral Line Erosion far less in freshwater but poor diet is definitely correlated with it. I believe that Lateral Line Erosion is due to some unknown deficiency. It is likely a vitamin or mineral deficiency.

The first thing I would confirm is that the carbon filter in your RO system is well rinsed as carbon dust has been linked to Lateral Line Erosion. If you believe it is well rinsed I would consider using Remineralized RO water. You would need to mix in something like SeaChem Equilibrium or Brightwell remineralize into your RO water before using. This will help you to get a specific water hardness and it will include more minerals to hopefully make up for whatever is missing when you add straight RO.


As another note. I would just use tap water for oscars. I am not a crazy oscar guy but I kept oscars for years in AZ tap water that looked perfectly healthy so you may be obsessing over details that don't really matter. However, striving for something better is part of the fun of this hobby so I understand wanting to optimize these details.
 

Pntbll687

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Messages
2,094
Reaction score
2,610
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Perhaps this is off-topic, but I don't know of another form so oriented towards water chemistry in aquaria, so I'm posting here. Worse, it's freshwater, but bear with me.

I have >40 years experience keeping fish. I am employed as a chemist, and have an extensive background in analytical chemistry, and have what I would consider a strong understanding of water chemistry. But I'm stumped.

I have oscars, and they get hole-in-the-head disease. It's been in remission for several years now. However, there is one commonality: when water parameters start to go "bad" (by whatever metric), the larger one gets these opalescent, hazy white spots on his head. I fix it, and it goes away. Oddly, they appear in late November every year for reasons I can't figure out.

However, most recently, I've been trying to lower the TDS; it's about 550 ppm, from the tap water we have. Here's the weird part: every time I try to lower the TDS by replacing the tank water with RO- even over the course of several days to drop it to ~480 from 550- the hazy spots appear, and I know if I continue, the fish will get erosions.

The pH is high (just south of 8.0), the filtration is strong, water quality and clarity is good, other than a bit of nitrate straight out of the tap. Of course, at 550 ppm TDS and pH of almost 8, moving the pH with bisulfate is a monumental task. Supplementation with magnesium sulfate doesn't seem to help too much, if at all. The fish eat strongly, even when affected by erosions.

For the life of me, I can't figure out what's triggering the advent of the disease by using RO. I feed it straight from the RO unit into the sump, trickling it in a few mL at a time into a 120-gallon tank with ~15 gallons of sump volume.

Normally at this stage I give up and go back to 100% treated tap water, but I'm going to try replacing a few gallons a day with RO that has passed through another aquarium I have, drip-fed into the 120-gallon system, so see if it's an acclimatization thing.

If anyone has suggestions as to what to try, or what could be responsible as regards the RO system, I'm wide open to recommendations. I've been fighting this for years.

I would speculate that the source water changes in some way in November. If it's city water, they may add or remove a specific treatment that used seasonally. If it's from a well, the water table is moving up and down, allowing specific minerals to get into or out of the water.

If you think the ph needs to be lowered, I would suggest going with muriatic acid. I used 30% labelled for pools to lower alkalinity of freshly mixed saltwater when needed. A few ml go a long way. You can also get 10% from home depot or lowes.

Have you had the RO water tested? or if you have city water, is there a recent water report available?
 

Bubbles, bubbles, and more bubbles: Do you keep bubble-like corals in your reef?

  • I currently have bubble-like corals in my reef.

    Votes: 20 34.5%
  • I don’t currently have bubble-like corals in my reef, but I have in the past.

    Votes: 7 12.1%
  • I don’t currently have bubble-like corals in my reef, but I plan to in the future.

    Votes: 19 32.8%
  • I don’t currently have bubble-like corals in my reef and have no plans to in the future.

    Votes: 11 19.0%
  • Other.

    Votes: 1 1.7%

New Posts

Back
Top