Say What? HEATERS and CHILLERs not totally necessary???

[Glenner’sreef]

my 400 gallon natural sunlit reef I don't need a chiller or heater just a small fan to keep the air circulating. The reef stays between 76-77 all year.

Nice, stable and natural!

 

[hart24601]

I would probably say that depending on your preference for living temperatures, if you have a air conditioner and furnace and part of the county you live in you *may* not need a heater or chiller.

However those people are probably already well aware they don’t need one and if they have one it’s hopefully undersized and hardly runs so it’s not groundbreaking news to them.

 

[TurboTang]

Our problem with reef tanks is a combination of temp/nutrients/chemical stability/livestock interaction/water flow. If anyone of these things gets to far out of whack it creates stress, if 2 or 3 get out we get big problems. In my opinion, like the op stated water temp is not as big a deal as we make it - unless you got 2 or 3 other problems to go along with it.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

LoL you cant compare your tank to the ocean. We have to be extra stable with our tanks because the ecosystem in our tank is so fragile compared to the vast ocean. People rub sun tan lotion all over themselves and go swimming in the great barrier reef. Next time run some sun tan lotion on your arm and stick your arm into your tank. It won't turn out well =P.

So the comparison was 5 degrees hotter or colder on the reefs compared to 4 degrees in our tanks. Sun tan lotion?

 

[hart24601]

So the comparison was 5 degrees hotter or colder on the reefs compared to 4 degrees in our tanks. Sun tan lotion?

Perhaps a better argument for our tanks not being like the ocean with 4-5 degree swings would be flow rate isn’t remotely comparable on reef crests with the amount of water being moved is many time higher if not an order of magnitude

Since it seems obvious some people don’t need temp controls in there reef perhaps a more interesting question would be when are heaters needed. How about chillers? What’s the maximum daily swing our reefs are ok with, how about seasonally? Does tank size matter aside from providing a temp buffer, does the lack of heater make more sense in a 500+ gal reef where it changes more slowly than a much more common 32g biocube.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

I often wonder about temp stability and it's importance. I understand seasonal swings, but what about daily swings? Is there much data on the fluctuations in a single day?

So water temperature swings are far less dramatic or noticeable on a daily basis. Outside of bodies of water temperatures (like in Arizona) can increase or drop in a matter of hours. We have monsoons here and it can be sunny and warm in late afternoon and then dust storm, rain and we’ve even had hail all in the same day. Crazy!!!

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Perhaps a better argument for our tanks not being like the ocean with 4-5 degree swings would be flow rate isn’t remotely comparable on reef crests with the amount of water being moved is many time higher if not an order of magnitude

Since it seems obvious some people don’t need temp controls in there reef perhaps a more interesting question would be when are heaters needed. How about chillers? What’s the maximum daily swing our reefs are ok with, how about seasonally? Does tank size matter aside from providing a temp buffer, does the lack of heater make more sense in a 500+ gal reef where it changes more slowly than a much more common 32g biocube.

Flow rate, I believe is determined by the creatures that live in a particular environment. From SPS, Anemones to LPS, if they were being pushed around too much by water currents well, you just wouldn’t find them there. They would either find it too difficult to feed or eat or reproduce. Hobbyists sometimes have one too many MP40s in their tank and have to cut back. I think Mother Nature has that covered and reefers watch that carefully as well.

 

[hart24601]

Flow rate, I believe is determined by the creatures that live in a particular environment. From SPS, Anemones to LPS, if they were being pushed around too much by water currents well, you just wouldn’t find them there. They would either find it too difficult to feed or eat or reproduce. Hobbyists sometimes have one too many MP40s in their tank and have to cut back. I think Mother Nature has that covered and reefers watch that carefully as well.

Yeah, sort of. That’s the exact issue is we just can’t create even that ‘mild’ flow. It’s the entire water column moving around the coral, it might not be a jet stream compared to our powerheads but the volume far exceeds what we can do and it’s not just the same 100gallons flowing over and over the coral. Of course we are talking about non reef crest coral now, acros on the crest have amazing water velocity.

it’s another case of the wild environment just not translating to our little boxes no matter how much we want them to they are not the same and shouldn’t always have the same comparisons drawn.

of course Mother Nature has that covered as the organisms would die, and as you said sometimes reefers have to made adjustments like a missed reef the flow is tricky to get right, but it doesn’t mean we are remotely the same as nature

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Yeah, sort of. That’s the exact issue is we just can’t create even that ‘mild’ flow. It’s the entire water column moving around the coral, it might not be a jet stream compared to our powerheads but the volume far exceeds what we can do and it’s not just the same 100gallons flowing over and over the coral. Of course we are talking about non reef crest coral now, acros on the crest have amazing water velocity.

it’s another case of the wild environment just not translating to our little boxes no matter how much we want them to they are not the same and shouldn’t always have the same comparisons drawn.

of course Mother Nature has that covered as the organisms would die, and as you said sometimes reefers have to made adjustments like a missed reef the flow is tricky to get right, but it doesn’t mean we are remotely the same as nature

I like what you’re saying and that was sort of the point with my opening. Why are we (with heaters and chillers) attempting to and succeeding with having a stable reef (temperature wise) when mother nature has 10 degree fluctuations in the most successful of reef environments.

 

[Tamberav]

I find it bizarre when people are surprised nothing died in their tank cuz it hit 85 degrees or whatever. 85 isn’t an issue for most things.

My tanks have always changed a lot form winter to summer.
78-85 generally and days are different as well. I don’t run a chiller so if we get a heat wave…

Been that way for over 15 year and I never found a reason to get a chiller yet.

 

[Gatorpa]

While this is almost all true, unless you have wild caught corals, most of our corals are tank raised and is not use to the swings. You can say that our corals are wussies…

I’ve seen plenty of discussion that tank raised corals actually do better with quicker swing than the natural pieces.

Many tanks swing 2-3 degrees in a day years ago few people had chillers, people weren’t testing 4 times a week let alone 4 times per day, which is why hobby raised SPS are more hardy in general.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

I’ve seen plenty of discussion that tank raised corals actually do better with quicker swing than the natural pieces.

Many tanks swing 2-3 degrees in a day years ago few people had chillers, people weren’t testing 4 times a week let alone 4 times per day, which is why hobby raised SPS are more hardy in general.

Chillers were stupid expensive and horribly inefficient when I started in the late 90's

Very cool! I live in new england and my tanks are so small that the cords coming out of the back make them look like a critical care patients in the ICU. Thank goodness for false backs. I think my punishment for running WAY too complicated nano tanks is that all of that equipment generates heat and I am always fighting to keep it cool in the summer. In the winter there are parts of the house that are like...62. There is a tank in one of those places... so I need a heater in the winter and I blast the AC in the summer.

That tank is a temp 50g cube since my 120 is being resealed currently. The temp swings are similar on the 120g (a few degrees warmer overall due to t5's).

I have elderly indoor dogs, so they live better than I do with the house being temp controlled.

 

[Chrisv.]

Chillers were stupid expensive and horribly inefficient when I started in the late 90's

Have they improved? I'm thinking about scaling up again soon, and with the cost of LEDs being so high, I'm tempted to dust off the old halides. $900 a fixture for radions vs $80 a bulb for new radiums. My old chiller is loud, but more or less did the job.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

Have they improved? I'm thinking about scaling up again soon, and with the cost of LEDs being so high, I'm tempted to dust off the old halides. $900 a fixture for radions vs $80 a bulb for new radiums. My old chiller is loud, but more or less did the job.

Iirc the efficiency has improved. I haven't looked at them in about 10 years (finally got central A/C in my old house I owned and got away from halides to T8/5's)

 

[Gatorpa]

Have they improved? I'm thinking about scaling up again soon, and with the cost of LEDs being so high, I'm tempted to dust off the old halides. $900 a fixture for radions vs $80 a bulb for new radiums. My old chiller is loud, but more or less did the job.

You likely would save money in the long run even with the high LED initial cost, MH are super expensive to run when compared to LEDs plus the massive heat those pups put out..

However Mh ballasts prob are almost free..

 

[Glenner’sreef]

I find it bizarre when people are surprised nothing died in their tank cuz it hit 85 degrees or whatever. 85 isn’t an issue for most things.

My tanks have always changed a lot form winter to summer.
78-85 generally and days are different as well. I don’t run a chiller so if we get a heat wave…

Been that way for over 15 year and I never found a reason to get a chiller

Totally agree! Never owned a chiller. Heaters, although it’s a part of the argument here, I can see why hobbyists would want one. Some homes in the winter may enjoy colder temps inside their house. 65-73. That could end up being a bit much. The wife and I really like to keep things in the mid 70s here year around. That being said, I could easily do without both.

 

[HB AL]

I dont use chillers or heaters. I use central AC when it's warm and a natural gas heater in when it's chilly. Best of both worlds I'm comfortable and the tank inhabitants are comfortable. I do live 3 miles from the Pacific in SOCAL so temps don't vary much 50% of the time. With that said my tank will fluctuate between 79 and 82.

 

[Tamberav]

Totally agree! Never owned a chiller. Heaters, although it’s a part of the argument here, I can see why hobbyists would want one. Some homes in the winter may enjoy colder temps inside their house. 65-73. That could end up being a bit much. The wife and I really like to keep things in the mid 70s here year around. That being said, I could easily do without both.

Ya I do have a heater but it gets cold here in winter. Like low 60s at night in the house.

Heaters are cheap but if you don’t need one then it can’t fail on ya either

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

I dont use chillers or heaters. I use central AC when it's warm and a natural gas heater in when it's chilly. Best of both worlds I'm comfortable and the tank inhabitants are comfortable. I do live 3 miles from the Pacific in SOCAL so temps don't vary much 50% of the time. With that said my tank will fluctuate between 79 and 82.

Long Beach for me, so much the same. Occasionally the heaters will run overnight in the winter since we keep the house cool (68-70f)

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Ya I do have a heater but it gets cold here in winter. Like low 60s at night in the house.

Heaters are cheap but if you don’t need one then it can’t fail on ya either

True, plus “indoor” ice fishing could get expensive. Lol.