Scratching my head???

[czoolander]

Bump

Update- Added some pictures

Update- Made a new batch of 30 gallon water Friday night its been mixing for 36+ hours. I am going to test the water tonight to see how close the salt bucket peramiters are for @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[czoolander]

Sounds great.

Sooooooo . Not very good results/ more confused than ever .

salinity 1.026 with refractometer
Salinity 1.024 Hanna digital

magnesium 1650 ( I saw on Instagram hanna said there was an issue with the reagents but I haven’t researched yet )

calcium ( unable to test I ran out of regant ordering more tonight)

alkalinity. 1st test 15.6. 2nd test 7.9

I don’t think it’s mixed properly I can still see solids floating in the top water column. I had my pump at the bottom so the salt doesn’t settle at the bottom but apparently it’s not mixing the top well so I moved the pump half way up and I’ll check tomorrow night and retest everything.

I would assume an qps 16 at full power should mix a 30 gallon brute can though? Not sure why the water is still not crystal clear after 36+ hours ?

also not sure why two drastic alkalinity results minutes apart .

anyway not good results I’ll test again tomorrow. Do you see any point in testing nitrates or phosphate in a new batch of water ? Or skip it ?

Super confused reefer

Thank you

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Sooooooo . Not very good results/ more confused than ever .

salinity 1.026 with refractometer
Salinity 1.024 Hanna digital

magnesium 1650 ( I saw on Instagram hanna said there was an issue with the reagents but I haven’t researched yet )

calcium ( unable to test I ran out of regant ordering more tonight)

alkalinity. 1st test 15.6. 2nd test 7.9

I don’t think it’s mixed properly I can still see solids floating in the top water column. I had my pump at the bottom so the salt doesn’t settle at the bottom but apparently it’s not mixing the top well so I moved the pump half way up and I’ll check tomorrow night and retest everything.

I would assume an qps 16 at full power should mix a 30 gallon brute can though? Not sure why the water is still not crystal clear after 36+ hours ?

also not sure why two drastic alkalinity results minutes apart .

anyway not good results I’ll test again tomorrow. Do you see any point in testing nitrates or phosphate in a new batch of water ? Or skip it ?

Super confused reefer

Thank you

Sorry if I missed it, but what salt are you using? What temp are you mixing at?
To your last question, I sure hope there is no nitrate or phosphate in freshly made saltwater!

 

[czoolander]

Sorry if I missed it, but what salt are you using? What temp are you mixing at?
To your last question, I sure hope there is no nitrate or phosphate in freshly made saltwater!

Brightwell neomarine . No heater in the bucket I tested 79.8 on my Hanna digital. Starts out cold though not sure maybe 65-70 when I add the salt it’s cold out of the tap through my RODI system.

I would hope so too but you never know with all these weird results I’m getting

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Sooooooo . Not very good results/ more confused than ever .

salinity 1.026 with refractometer
Salinity 1.024 Hanna digital

magnesium 1650 ( I saw on Instagram hanna said there was an issue with the reagents but I haven’t researched yet )

calcium ( unable to test I ran out of regant ordering more tonight)

alkalinity. 1st test 15.6. 2nd test 7.9

I don’t think it’s mixed properly I can still see solids floating in the top water column. I had my pump at the bottom so the salt doesn’t settle at the bottom but apparently it’s not mixing the top well so I moved the pump half way up and I’ll check tomorrow night and retest everything.

I would assume an qps 16 at full power should mix a 30 gallon brute can though? Not sure why the water is still not crystal clear after 36+ hours ?

also not sure why two drastic alkalinity results minutes apart .

anyway not good results I’ll test again tomorrow. Do you see any point in testing nitrates or phosphate in a new batch of water ? Or skip it ?

Super confused reefer

Thank you

I’m throwing a dart at the board of causes, but I would venture to say that if there are a lot of undissolved solids that it could be possible that one test had fewer solids….unless you used the same fluid for both tests? You didn’t state. You didn’t mention what test you were using for Alk? I would wait for the salt to properly mix before testing. Is the unused salt clumpy? I saw a post today about Hanna recalling the magnesium reagents so I’m sure that test is invalid. Do you have another magnesium test kit?

 

[czoolander]

I’m throwing a dart at the board of causes, but I would venture to say that if there are a lot of undissolved solids that it could be possible that one test had fewer solids….unless you used the same fluid for both tests? You didn’t state. You didn’t mention what test you were using for Alk? I would wait for the salt to properly mix before testing. Is the unused salt clumpy? I saw a post today about Hanna recalling the magnesium reagents so I’m sure that test is invalid. Do you have another magnesium test kit?

That’s so frustrating I just bought the magnesium hanna and waited forever for it .. ugggh .

so I pulled water at different times so that would make sense if it’s not mixed the difference in results. I’ll wait another 24 hours

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

That’s so frustrating I just bought the magnesium hanna and waited forever for it .. ugggh .

so I pulled water at different times so that would make sense if it’s not mixed the difference in results. I’ll wait another 24 hours

Search for the post or Hanna’s site. You can fill out a form and they will send you new reagent. Still curious if the unused salt was clumpy, as it should have mixed up by now. I’ve seen other salts clump up in the bucket/box and then not mix properly in water. I don’t know why. I do know that the place I bought it from replaced it no questions asked.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

That’s so frustrating I just bought the magnesium hanna and waited forever for it .. ugggh .

so I pulled water at different times so that would make sense if it’s not mixed the difference in results. I’ll wait another 24 hours

Don't mix it any more. Let it settle a few hours and then test. If the alk, cal, and mag are in a good range for your tank, then you should be good to go.

 

[czoolander]

Don't mix it any more. Let it settle a few hours and then test. If the alk, cal, and mag are in a good range for your tank, then you should be good to go.

Is there reason to not mix for too long ?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Is there reason to not mix for too long ?

Well, some salt brands have specific instructions about how long to mix. I am not familiar with the brand you use, so you can look up their recommendations.

But the reason i suggested it was so that when you test, you don't get any suspended particles or precipitates in your sample.

 

[Mark Bradley]

Bump

Update- Added some pictures

Update- Made a new batch of 30 gallon water Friday night its been mixing for 36+ hours. I am going to test the water tonight to see how close the salt bucket peramiters are for @Randy Holmes-Farley

I buy my water from my LFS - have you tried there’s to see if it helps stabilise the system?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sooooooo . Not very good results/ more confused than ever .

salinity 1.026 with refractometer
Salinity 1.024 Hanna digital

magnesium 1650 ( I saw on Instagram hanna said there was an issue with the reagents but I haven’t researched yet )

calcium ( unable to test I ran out of regant ordering more tonight)

alkalinity. 1st test 15.6. 2nd test 7.9

I don’t think it’s mixed properly I can still see solids floating in the top water column. I had my pump at the bottom so the salt doesn’t settle at the bottom but apparently it’s not mixing the top well so I moved the pump half way up and I’ll check tomorrow night and retest everything.

I would assume an qps 16 at full power should mix a 30 gallon brute can though? Not sure why the water is still not crystal clear after 36+ hours ?

also not sure why two drastic alkalinity results minutes apart .

anyway not good results I’ll test again tomorrow. Do you see any point in testing nitrates or phosphate in a new batch of water ? Or skip it ?

Super confused reefer

Thank you

You should test the seawater for calcium and alk after it has settled clear. The undissolved solids of calcium carbonate can partly or completely dissolve in the low pH of the tests, raising calcium and alk measurements to false high value.

Turn off the power head, let it settle a few hours or overnight, and retest.

 

[gbru316]

The Hanna Ca and Mg checkers haven't been terribly well received by the community. Many (most?) advise against them, and I believe a big part of the concern is the ease at which measurement error can be introduced -- compared to the more standard titration testing.

These are easy titration tests to do and difficult to mess up, you're just looking for a (pretty noticeable) color change after adding reagent drop-by-drop. You count the drops it took to observe the color change, then reference a look-up table to convert # of drops to measurement parameter.


Bigger picture -- It's important to develop a testing process that is repeatable for you. For instance, some people use a syringe to measure tank water. Others use the cuvette lines. Either one can work -- as long as you do it the same way every single time. My method is to use the cuvette line, and fill until the bottom of the meniscus is level with the cuvette line.

I also wipe down the cuvette exterior before the standardization and also before the measurement. Additionally, I use the same cuvette each time I test -- I marked the bottom of 1 ea cuvette with "A", "N", and "P" with a paint marker. And I place the cuvette in the checker such that the "10 mL" text is centered, facing me. Why? Because manufacturing tolerances mean there are slight differences between each cuvette -- even at different parts of the same cuvette. And fingerprints/grease are known to impact results. If your first measurement (C1, used for standardization) is performed with a fingerprint in the measurement path, and your 2nd measurement (C2, the actual measurement) is taken without the fingerprint -- you're going to get erroneous data.

I also rinse cuvettes immediately after testing (to prevent tinting) and store filled with RODI water (which is great at dissolving stuff).

Regarding salinity measurements with a refractometer -- I verify calibration with reference solution before every measurement "session." I also verify after if the results don't match what I expect. I allow the sample to "sit" on the refractometer for a minute or so before testing. I use the same light source for every measurement, and I wipe it clean and rinse with RODI prior to storage. I've seen refractometers drift over time, and this process is simple enough and eliminates uncertainty.


I do not deviate from these processes, ever. And my results are very repeatable.

 

[KStatefan]

I use the Neomarine salt and my magnesium is always high from what the spec says. I am not sure I trust what the instructions say since they also say to mix to "specific gravity of ~1.025 g/cm3"

 

[czoolander]

Search for the post or Hanna’s site. You can fill out a form and they will send you new reagent. Still curious if the unused salt was clumpy, as it should have mixed up by now. I’ve seen other salts clump up in the bucket/box and then not mix properly in water. I don’t know why. I do know that the place I bought it from replaced it no questions asked.

I really hate having to put in work for Hanna’s error . I have to fill a form and all this nonsense I’ve spent over $800

You should test the seawater for calcium and alk after it has settled clear. The undissolved solids of calcium carbonate can partly or completely dissolve in the low pH of the tests, raising calcium and alk measurements to false high value.

Turn off the power head, let it settle a few hours or overnight, and retest.

ok I had it mixing all night . I’ll turn off the powerheads today while I work .

can the water go stagnant with no pump running? If so how long can you leave mixed water in a brute can with no pumps running?

 

[czoolander]

I use the Neomarine salt and my magnesium is always high from what the spec says. I am not sure I trust what the instructions say since they also say to mix to "specific gravity of ~1.025 g/cm3"

Yeah I’ve strongly been considering returning to Red Sea salt . I switched to brightwell at the recommendation of my lfs

 

[czoolander]

I buy my water from my LFS - have you tried there’s to see if it helps stabilise the system?

I would for sure but they are 2 hours away it’s not feasible for me at all . I thought rodi and mixing at home would be much easier lol

 

[czoolander]

The Hanna Ca and Mg checkers haven't been terribly well received by the community. Many (most?) advise against them, and I believe a big part of the concern is the ease at which measurement error can be introduced -- compared to the more standard titration testing.

These are easy titration tests to do and difficult to mess up, you're just looking for a (pretty noticeable) color change after adding reagent drop-by-drop. You count the drops it took to observe the color change, then reference a look-up table to convert # of drops to measurement parameter.


Bigger picture -- It's important to develop a testing process that is repeatable for you. For instance, some people use a syringe to measure tank water. Others use the cuvette lines. Either one can work -- as long as you do it the same way every single time. My method is to use the cuvette line, and fill until the bottom of the meniscus is level with the cuvette line.

I also wipe down the cuvette exterior before the standardization and also before the measurement. Additionally, I use the same cuvette each time I test -- I marked the bottom of 1 ea cuvette with "A", "N", and "P" with a paint marker. And I place the cuvette in the checker such that the "10 mL" text is centered, facing me. Why? Because manufacturing tolerances mean there are slight differences between each cuvette -- even at different parts of the same cuvette. And fingerprints/grease are known to impact results. If your first measurement (C1, used for standardization) is performed with a fingerprint in the measurement path, and your 2nd measurement (C2, the actual measurement) is taken without the fingerprint -- you're going to get erroneous data.

I also rinse cuvettes immediately after testing (to prevent tinting) and store filled with RODI water (which is great at dissolving stuff).

Regarding salinity measurements with a refractometer -- I verify calibration with reference solution before every measurement "session." I also verify after if the results don't match what I expect. I allow the sample to "sit" on the refractometer for a minute or so before testing. I use the same light source for every measurement, and I wipe it clean and rinse with RODI prior to storage. I've seen refractometers drift over time, and this process is simple enough and eliminates uncertainty.


I do not deviate from these processes, ever. And my results are very repeatable.

Yeah I totally would use the titration tests and I started out that way using them but I’m colour blind . Well I see colours but not like everyone else . The test with the numbers in the circles ….. yeah I don’t see numbers.
So I said I’m going digital for everything and was really hoping that they would be accurate and trustworthy results.

I will get some gloves for testing as you mention fingerprints. I have been bare handed .

I’ll try also to get specific tests tubes and syringe for each test . I do clean all equipment after testing but for sure I mix them up each time .

Is there a piece of equipment or controller that just tests all peramiters in your tank ? Money isn’t an option I am just frustrated with testing by hand each peramiters and getting unreliable results either from my own error or faulty equipment

 

[homer1475]

FWIW......

All hanna eggs shoot a beam of light through the side of the cuvette, and reads from the opposite side. As long as you only handle the bottom, and top while shaking, fingerprints are not an issue.

EDIT:
what I mean is I shake with my index finger on the top, and thumb on the bottom(like a C). Have never had an issue with fingerprints during reading.

 

[czoolander]

FWIW......

All hanna eggs shoot a beam of light through the side of the cuvette, and reads from the opposite side. As long as you only handle the bottom, and top while shaking, fingerprints are not an issue.

I also sometimes notice little crystals on the inside of the glass is this salt from the test water ? Even after rinsing them out 5-6 times . Is there a proper process for cleaning these tiny tubes ? I was even considering buying a small dishwasher that would never run soap through only water . Everything is on the table at this point no bad ideas haha