Should I add Marine Pure to my Biocube?

[Rakie]

I was talking nitrates not phosphates they are not always intertwined as you can have zero one and high on the other

Nitrates feeds pest algae thats why most people want it out

Its great that all these prominent members of the community speak about this but one thing i notice thats a pattern there tanks are usually very big and they have allot more coral using these nutrients

As far as i can tell all these people use live rock in there displays and isn’t live rock to grow denitrifying bacteria

Back to op question marinepure gives you more surface area to grow this denitrifying bacteria its just replacing live rock

Not talking chemicals just marinepure

so why would filling your sump to the brim with live rock is a bad thing?

I know you're talking about nitrates, that's why I specified that copypasta was about phosphates -- You can apply EVERYTHING I said to nitrates as well. They are not bad. People do not want to get it out. Most people these days are feeding nitrates. Do a search on Stump Remover, or kno3 (Potassium Nitrate). People are finally seeing that nutrients are a good thing.

Randy Holmes specifically told you no -- You do not WANT such low nutrients. It's bad for your tank.

The low nutrient myth came from the level of nutrients on our reefs. What doesn't seem to get through to people is that we have a glass box of water, not the actual ocean. There are tons of things corals can eat that we don't have. To supplement that, we can give them nitrates and phosphates.

Marine pure will lower nutrient levels down to a point where corals will have difficulty, and that both nitrates and phosphates are necessary. I've had this issue myself, personally.

Low nutrients typically = pale lifeless corals. Ever notice how many threads there are where people ask "HELP my SPS are pale!" then immediately we ask what are your parameters... "no3 0, po4 0" every thread ends the same -- Dose nutrients.

I also feel most people just want to be right and the way they know it is right when you give advice you need to be able to accept information from others those are the rules i go by

Funny, that's exactly what I thought when I read your post.

You literally right above have the guy who runs the chemistry forum at r2r telling you not to do it, and that you want nutrients. He's probably the most experienced person here. And you aren't listening.

 

[ourcoralreef]

I know you're talking about nitrates, that's why I specified that copypasta was about phosphates

Sorry missed that

Marine pure will lower nutrient levels down to a point where corals will have difficulty, and that both nitrates and phosphates are necessary.

Here we don’t agree i have lots of marinepure in my system and nitrates or phosphates are not even close to 0

 

[Rakie]

In mine it hit zero. But I also used siporax and seachem matrix. They destroyed my tank almost by stripping it clean of nutrients, it was way too much. Removing them significantly helped my tank. And THAT is when I started to question low nutrients.

Who EVER said low nutrients were "right"? Where did that information come from? Why do we keep saying it, again, and again, and again... When more, and more people every week are discovering dosing nitrates is making their tank better than it ever has been. And now people are starting to dose phosphates.

This has come up so many times. Did you bother to read the link in my long copypasta? It's a HUGE thread on how low nutrients is basically bull crap, and hundreds of first hand accounts on how upping nutrients significantly helped their tank.

 

[ourcoralreef]

In mine it hit zero. But I also used siporax and seachem matrix. They destroyed my tank almost by stripping it clean of nutrients, it was way too much. Removing them significantly helped my tank. And THAT is when I started to question low nutrients.

Don’t really know what went wrong in your tank it could be a combination of all three or they are sprayed with something

In my experience marinepure helps allot it helps convert ammonia to nitrites and nitrites to nitrates you need to help it remove the excess nitrates it will not do it for you


We all agree ammonia and nitrites are not good for any system yes?

This has come up so many times. Did you bother to read the link in my long copypasta? It's a HUGE thread on how low nutrients is basically bull crap, and hundreds of first hand accounts on how upping nutrients significantly helped their tank.

Oh i definitely did and im 7 minutes into the video
love the seahorse birth

 

[ourcoralreef]

Ok so i finished watching the video and either you posted the wrong video or ....

at 33:46 min (close to the end) he says “what im not saying is that everyone should go out and do higher po4 reefs”

Also the people quoted have phosphates .1-. 1 8

Back to op wanted to know if they should add marinepure to his/her tank

As i said before marinepure will NOT make it 0 it will help them keep it low so yes in my experience its a good product

Never said Nutrients are bad but you do need to keep them in check and stable

 

[lbacha]

Not sure if any of you keep freshwater high tech planted tanks but I do and I dose large amounts of phosphates and nitrates daily. The reason is so my plants and beneficial algae (which is then consumed by my clean up crew) can out compete simpler undesirable algaes for CO2 and other key nutrients. I will admit it's a balancing act but if I don't dose macro and micro nutrients my plants will stop growing and slime and bba algae will take over.

I don't know if it's comparable in a reef tank as I also do huge water changes weekly but I think there is a good point that eliminating these nutrients would have a negative effect on the benificial algae in coral and possibly make it easier for non desirable algaes to get a foothold

 

[ourcoralreef]

I don't know if it's comparable in a reef tank as I also do huge water changes weekly but I think there is a good point that eliminating these nutrients would have a negative effect on the benificial algae in coral and possibly make it easier for non desirable algaes to get a foothold

There is definitely something there coral is made of millions of algae

 

[Rakie]

Corals actually contain dinoflagellates, not algae.

And as I said, everything in the post (video included) can be applied to nitrates. I'm not sure how you aren't understanding that...

We all agree ammonia and nitrites are not good for any system yes?

No. We don't all believe that. In fact, less and less people are believing that every day. I don't know how to make that any more clear... I gave you a video, I gave you a huge thread, I gave you personal accounts, the mod who is literally renown for his understanding of reef chemistry tells you the opposite... And you just refuse to listen. No matter what anybody says, you just keep saying "But... nutrients are bad"

This is why it's not worth my time trying to talk about the subject. After at least an hour of work trying to talk with you, nothing was accomplished. If you heard a single thing I was saying (or others) you would not have just said;

We all agree ammonia and nitrites are not good for any system yes?

So as I always say -- There's more than one way to skin a reef. All I ever hope people do is realize there's more than one way. Good luck.

 

[Luno]

I'm just gonna add some of personal experience with nutrient levels and corals. I think nutrient levels are dependent on other factors as well. A big one for me is nutrients and alk, for instance and again 'in my own experience'. Higher nutrient levels and lower alk don't fair so well where as lower alk and lower nutrients seems to work better. I like to run NSW which naturally has very low nutrient levels and lower than most reef tank alk levels. Just from my own preference I think it's pretty hard to beat nature so I try to match those parameters

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Elevated nitrate (say, 50 ppm) does not kill corals. It may brown them from excess zoox. Richard Ross’s tank linked above is an example. It had high nitrate and phosphate, despite the fact the article focuses on phosphate.

Too low nitrate can cause burnt tips if alk is too high, and will cause pale corals if you do not supply enough N somehow.

Too high of nutrients can encourage algae if you do not limit it some other way.

Most advanced SPS aquarists find a few ppm nitrate to be a good zone.

 

[ourcoralreef]

Corals actually contain dinoflagellates, not algae.

And as I said, everything in the post (video included) can be applied to nitrates. I'm not sure how you aren't understanding that...



No. We don't all believe that. In fact, less and less people are believing that every day. I don't know how to make that any more clear... I gave you a video, I gave you a huge thread, I gave you personal accounts, the mod who is literally renown for his understanding of reef chemistry tells you the opposite... And you just refuse to listen. No matter what anybody says, you just keep saying "But... nutrients are bad"

This is why it's not worth my time trying to talk about the subject. After at least an hour of work trying to talk with you, nothing was accomplished. If you heard a single thing I was saying (or others) you would not have just said;



So as I always say -- There's more than one way to skin a reef. All I ever hope people do is realize there's more than one way. Good luck.

You just don’t like to hear other people’s opinions

And don’t listen at all

Never said nutrients are bad

And just google “dinoflagellates algae”

 

[ourcoralreef]

I still stand by what i said marinepure is a good thing it will NOT 0 out your nutrients but will help you keep them manageable especially in a biocube that is lps and softy dominant and hardly if any sps

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I still stand by what i said marinepure is a good thing it will NOT 0 out your nutrients but will help you keep them manageable especially in a biocube that is lps and softy dominant and hardly if any sps

Lots of people with and without Marine Pure have excessively low nitrate, and adding it (or more of it) in such a scenario is a bad idea (IMO).

 

[Ranjib]

I'll repeat my earlier suggestion on not to use marine pure, with some more thoughts on it , after reading through all the comments here.
Marine pure is not necessarily a bad thing, but I have higher confidence in alternatives for a nano tank. Couple of things I am emphasizing here is the "nano" form factor, and "alternative options".
Most of my understanding about this is based on our experience at different nano tank builds (most of them are in nano reef, and i strongly suggest reading through a couple of post there around marine pure )
Nano tanks are more susceptible to fluctuation, but are easy to reset by frequent large water changes. Marine pure blocks in most cases have been a major nutrient trap for nano tanks. Remember, unlike standard 120G tanks, most nano tanks dont have enough space for skimmers so the water going inside marine pure is not necessarily after skimming. Removing marine pure when its not working has also inflicted bigger damage (large swing in NO3 & PO4) for nano tanks. These are not based on scientific data, but also not fictitious., I am mentioning it after several folks went through this. The backchamber where OP will stuff marine pure is almost certainly gonna trap detritous, this is not a sump area in a bigger tank, where you can easily clean things up (or even spot detritus). And the alternatives (chemical filtration of refugium) are not gonna cost as much (5 pack chemipure blue, which will last more than 3-6 months will cost 20$), which brings down marine pure value proposition.

 

[40B Knasty]

When adding another block of marine pure. The Marine Pure would just help process more nutrients and nitrogen. Then the person can add a healthier product to the tank for feeding corals or fish and control it vs it be a less healthier nutrients of waste. While having a piece of mind KNOWING the person has a tank that is a machine vs one that teeters on a balance. The person just needs to have a good nutrients export with a protein skimmer and phosphate export with say a cheato reactor balanced so they do not get an algae bloom. Thing is you just have to be on top of actually feeding or they will suffer for lack of a food source. Personally I would rather feed my corals Reefroids, Coral Gumbo, and good lighting vs ammonia from poop and pee, because it is an animal, not a plant.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

When adding another block of marine pure. The Marine Pure would just help process more nutrients and nitrogen. Then the person can add a healthier product to the tank for feeding corals or fish and control it vs it be a less healthier nutrients of waste. While having a piece of mind KNOWING the person has a tank that is a machine vs one that teeters on a balance. The person just needs to have a good nutrients export with a protein skimmer and phosphate export with say a cheato reactor balanced so they do not get an algae bloom. Thing is you just have to be on top of actually feeding or they will suffer for lack of a food source. Personally I would rather feed my corals Reefroids, Coral Gumbo, and good lighting vs ammonia from poop and pee, because it is an animal, not a plant.

I dunno man. It's an animal that has evolved to eat poo.

Personally , id throw a cool piece of rock in the display and glue animals to it that eat the nutints.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

For those concerned about aluminum release, one of the main corals that historically suffers from aluminum toxicity in reef tanks are leathers, which close up. Others close up too, but leathers may be the canary in the coal mine. So if you use an aluminum-containing product such as Phosguard or MarinePure, and leathers unexpectedly close up within a week or two of adding these products, aluminum may be why.

This thread has some experiences on aluminum from Marinepure and effects on corals:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-much-aluminum-will-it-leach-lets-guess.247034/

 

[40B Knasty]

I dunno man. It's an animal that has evolved to eat poo.

Personally , id throw a cool piece of rock in the display and glue animals to it that eat the nutints.

I know what you mean, but we are changing their evolved state. Might as well make their new evolved state in our glass boxes a healthier one is all I am saying.
For example.. I never fed my corals. Then I gave them Reefroids and colonies exploded. Remember I was just saying the other day that I had 6 fish in a 20g. They were getting plenty of waste and they were not growing either. So from that "I" have to evolve as an animal owner and be smarter about their needs.
It is like the guy who eats 20,000 calories a day that is 6'8" 400lbs. We would all most likely not live a long life doing that, but he (who is made of mostly water) works out and eats the right foods. He had to trick himself to like what he eats so he can grow and be healthy at that state and if he was in any other state. He would get the shakes from not keeping up with his "diet" of 20,000 calories.
These corals live forever and grow to the size of a bus. The only thing stopping it is us really.

 

[Newb73]

Lots of people with and without Marine Pure have excessively low nitrate, and adding it (or more of it) in such a scenario is a bad idea (IMO).

Unless you have 4 tangs and a rabbit fish that you felt needed more food.....then doing this = increased feeding without worry = fat tangs


FWIW, i am pro nutrient but i have a gallon of marine pure balls in my sump so i can feed 4 or 5 times a day, add reef energy and coral food to the tank and maintain nitrates just in that "barely detectable" range.

One nice thing about also having a lot of chaeto, from what i can tell...is that if tank inadvertently gets really depleted it will start to die off and release nutrients, like a nutrient buffer....provided you have a large colony of it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Unless you have 4 tangs and a rabbit fish that you felt needed more food.....then doing this = increased feeding without worry = fat tangs


FWIW, i am pro nutrient but i have a gallon of marine pure balls in my sump so i can feed 4 or 5 times a day, add reef energy and coral food to the tank and maintain nitrates just in that "barely detectable" range.

One nice thing about also having a lot of chaeto, from what i can tell...is that if tank inadvertently gets really depleted it will start to die off and release nutrients, like a nutrient buffer....provided you have a large colony of it.

The MarinePure is only part of the story (leaving phosphate) while other methods take them out in a more balanced fashion (e.g., macroalgae).[emoji3]