Should I add Marine Pure to my Biocube?

[Mombo]

I tried doing a refugium back there but couldn't get the chaeto to grow well.

 

[ourcoralreef]

Yes use as much as you can its a great product

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes use as much as you can its a great product

Seriously???

There’s a constant stream of people in the chemistry forum with nitrate too low (which is bad), and too much (or any) Marine Pure would make such a problem more likely or make it worse.

Released aluminum (potentially toxic) is another potential drawback. Some folks report that problem too.

So I do not think it is a product to add willy nilly.

 

[ourcoralreef]

Seriously???

There’s a constant stream of people in the chemistry forum with nitrate too low (which is bad), and too much (or any) Marine Pure would make such a problem more likely or make it worse.

Released aluminum (potentially toxic) is another potential drawback. Some folks report that problem too.

So I do not think it is a product to add willy nilly.

I use it and very happy with it

Nitrate too low is better than too high i rather dose nitrate then have die off because of high nitrates

(Potentially toxic) really? Out of the millions of people using it some people reported, that kinda sounds like a conspiracy theory

In the end of the day it is my personal opinion, in my experience the more denitrifying bacteria you have the better, most people suffer from high to extremely high nitrates/phosphates and they spend thousands of dollars on algae scrubbers and growing macro algae, if you can have a natural way of exporting nutrients without breaking the bank, some pre planning can save a huge headache later on, it’s very hard to get good bacteria going once your tank is established it’s much easier when doing your build

*You did not say what is your experience with marine pure

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Ok I was just worried if it would do something similar to the bioballs and end up trapping stuff back there and becoming a nitrate factory.

It can yes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I use it and very happy with it

Nitrate too low is better than too high i rather dose nitrate then have die off because of high nitrates

(Potentially toxic) really? Out of the millions of people using it some people reported, that kinda sounds like a conspiracy theory

In the end of the day it is my personal opinion, in my experience the more denitrifying bacteria you have the better, most people suffer from high to extremely high nitrates/phosphates and they spend thousands of dollars on algae scrubbers and growing macro algae, if you can have a natural way of exporting nutrients without breaking the bank, some pre planning can save a huge headache later on, it’s very hard to get good bacteria going once your tank is established it’s much easier when doing your build

*You did not say what is your experience with marine pure

I think you might want to stroll through the chemistry forum threads to see a wider range of experiences with nitrate and with aluminum.

 

[Rakie]

Nitrate too low is better than too high i rather dose nitrate then have die off because of high nitrates

This is very, very bad information.

 

[ourcoralreef]

This is very, very bad information.

Why
Teach me instead of discounting my opinion

 

[Krzydmnd]

Why
Teach me instead of discounting my opinion

Isn't this why we're all here? Better to offer backing info vs ambiguous slam response.

Everyone wins then. [emoji16]

 

[Rakie]

Why
Teach me instead of discounting my opinion

Isn't this why we're all here? Better to offer backing info vs ambiguous slam response.

Everyone wins then. [emoji16]

I've had this conversation a thousand times. It feels like an uphill battle at this point, and when you put out a thoughtful in-depth post you get ZERO response. Almost every time. So because I don't want to spend an hour writing a post, I'll give you the last post I made on the nutrient subject -- It includes personal stories, macna speeches, high traffic SPS specifc threads debunking the low nutrient myths, and probably more.

So here's some Copypasta. If you genuinely care, I'd be thrilled to talk about the subject nobody seems to care about. I've just spend too much time playing this game and losing lots of time.

______________________________________________________________________________

Rakie hates on Phosphate haters: In relation to Algae​

______________________________________________________________________________

Can you please give a range up to which 'phosphates are good' (i.e. at some level they are bad).

I have not found a point in which they are bad.

Richard Ross: Whats up with Phosphates? Macna 2014. 2:36 in is what I'm trying to get here.

And the competition depends on what is in the system to compete with the algae. I'm not sure you can make a blanket statement like this - without explanation. In other words - If you take 2 aquariums - with saltwater - and a couple damsels - are you saying that more algae will grow with 0.001 ppm PO4 than with 10 ppm phosphate - if the nitrate were the same in both tanks?

Not exactly. I'm saying this;

And the competition depends on what is in the system to compete with the algae.

With the caveat that we have no clue what makes this change. Some people DO get wild algae with any and all nutrients, others have zero problems until they hit undetectable no3/po4 (Like me). And that it's foolish to discredit anything that cuts against the grain simply because it's different. What I did say, is that more people have noted phosphate introduction allows some organisms to out compete algae. I suppose I should have reinforced this statement by saying this was specifically useful for people who have undetectable nutrients, and get algae problems. Such as, again, myself.

I had run down to undetectable phosphates, and had corals begin the lose color. Then I started getting some algae. Now at this point, I was dosing nitrates and not having success turning around my colors which had begun to fade. My nitrates were already above 25, but I had no algae issues until my po4 bottomed out. After asking, talking, reading, etc etc... I decided i'm going to dose phosphates. I don't care what people say, it's counter intuitive to *NOT* dose phosphates.

Dosed phos, GHA stopped, color came back.

In a thread here, titled "SPS high nutrient myth?" the introductory post talks about nitrates and phosphates being the devil, and then you're pointed at a tank from Sanjay, where Sanjay himself said "After Watching Sanjay talk about his 500 gallon reef tank and how he maintains his 50+ppm nitrates and 0.4 phosphates with little to no algae I was left speechless."

So if you have high nutrients and have issues with algae, dumping in more isn't going to help. If you have algae but zero phosphates, po4 may help you.

I've seen a trend of people not being afraid of dosing phosphates. And there's also a trend of those people having a reduction of algae. Exactly how or why this is, is unknown. But it's a trend that can be seen none the less.

______________________________________________________________________________

So if these are my thoughts on phosphates, the most evil of supposed nutrients, you could only imagine how afraid of no3 I am (hint: Not even a little)

 

[Krzydmnd]

I've had this conversation a thousand times. It feels like an uphill battle at this point, and when you put out a thoughtful in-depth post you get ZERO response. Almost every time. So because I don't want to spend an hour writing a post, I'll give you the last post I made on the nutrient subject -- It includes personal stories, macna speeches, high traffic SPS specifc threads debunking the low nutrient myths, and probably more.

So here's some Copypasta. If you genuinely care, I'd be thrilled to talk about the subject nobody seems to care about. I've just spend too much time playing this game and losing lots of time.

______________________________________________________________________________

Rakie hates on Phosphate haters: In relation to Algae​

______________________________________________________________________________



I have not found a point in which they are bad.

Richard Ross: Whats up with Phosphates? Macna 2014. 2:36 in is what I'm trying to get here.




Not exactly. I'm saying this;


With the caveat that we have no clue what makes this change. Some people DO get wild algae with any and all nutrients, others have zero problems until they hit undetectable no3/po4 (Like me). And that it's foolish to discredit anything that cuts against the grain simply because it's different. What I did say, is that more people have noted phosphate introduction allows some organisms to out compete algae. I suppose I should have reinforced this statement by saying this was specifically useful for people who have undetectable nutrients, and get algae problems. Such as, again, myself.

I had run down to undetectable phosphates, and had corals begin the lose color. Then I started getting some algae. Now at this point, I was dosing nitrates and not having success turning around my colors which had begun to fade. My nitrates were already above 25, but I had no algae issues until my po4 bottomed out. After asking, talking, reading, etc etc... I decided i'm going to dose phosphates. I don't care what people say, it's counter intuitive to *NOT* dose phosphates.

Dosed phos, GHA stopped, color came back.

In a thread here, titled "SPS high nutrient myth?" the introductory post talks about nitrates and phosphates being the devil, and then you're pointed at a tank from Sanjay, where Sanjay himself said "After Watching Sanjay talk about his 500 gallon reef tank and how he maintains his 50+ppm nitrates and 0.4 phosphates with little to no algae I was left speechless."

So if you have high nutrients and have issues with algae, dumping in more isn't going to help. If you have algae but zero phosphates, po4 may help you.

I've seen a trend of people not being afraid of dosing phosphates. And there's also a trend of those people having a reduction of algae. Exactly how or why this is, is unknown. But it's a trend that can be seen none the less.

I'll read through this tonight, thanks for reposting!

 

[ourcoralreef]

Definitely me too

a little confusing because you replied to a bunch of people but we are all here to learn and and our tanks can only gain from our knowledge

 

[ourcoralreef]

I've had this conversation a thousand times. It feels like an uphill battle at this point, and when you put out a thoughtful in-depth post you get ZERO response. Almost every time. So because I don't want to spend an hour writing a post, I'll give you the last post I made on the nutrient subject -- It includes personal stories, macna speeches, high traffic SPS specifc threads debunking the low nutrient myths, and probably more.

So here's some Copypasta. If you genuinely care, I'd be thrilled to talk about the subject nobody seems to care about. I've just spend too much time playing this game and losing lots of time.

______________________________________________________________________________

Rakie hates on Phosphate haters: In relation to Algae​

______________________________________________________________________________



I have not found a point in which they are bad.

Richard Ross: Whats up with Phosphates? Macna 2014. 2:36 in is what I'm trying to get here.




Not exactly. I'm saying this;


With the caveat that we have no clue what makes this change. Some people DO get wild algae with any and all nutrients, others have zero problems until they hit undetectable no3/po4 (Like me). And that it's foolish to discredit anything that cuts against the grain simply because it's different. What I did say, is that more people have noted phosphate introduction allows some organisms to out compete algae. I suppose I should have reinforced this statement by saying this was specifically useful for people who have undetectable nutrients, and get algae problems. Such as, again, myself.

I had run down to undetectable phosphates, and had corals begin the lose color. Then I started getting some algae. Now at this point, I was dosing nitrates and not having success turning around my colors which had begun to fade. My nitrates were already above 25, but I had no algae issues until my po4 bottomed out. After asking, talking, reading, etc etc... I decided i'm going to dose phosphates. I don't care what people say, it's counter intuitive to *NOT* dose phosphates.

Dosed phos, GHA stopped, color came back.

In a thread here, titled "SPS high nutrient myth?" the introductory post talks about nitrates and phosphates being the devil, and then you're pointed at a tank from Sanjay, where Sanjay himself said "After Watching Sanjay talk about his 500 gallon reef tank and how he maintains his 50+ppm nitrates and 0.4 phosphates with little to no algae I was left speechless."

So if you have high nutrients and have issues with algae, dumping in more isn't going to help. If you have algae but zero phosphates, po4 may help you.

I've seen a trend of people not being afraid of dosing phosphates. And there's also a trend of those people having a reduction of algae. Exactly how or why this is, is unknown. But it's a trend that can be seen none the less.

______________________________________________________________________________

So if these are my thoughts on phosphates, the most evil of supposed nutrients, you could only imagine how afraid of no3 I am (hint: Not even a little)

Wait so how does this tie into nitrates

 

[Rakie]

Wait so how does this tie into nitrates

People hate nutrients. People hate phosphates more than nitrates. If phosphates (the most evil nutrient) isn't bad, why would nitrates be bad?

Nitrates are basically diet phosphates on the "Nutrients are evil" scale. No nutrients are bad. Phosphates aren't bad. Nitrates aren't bad. Phosphates do NOT cause slowed growth of SPS. Nitrates alone do not cause brown corals. Basically almost everything people have been told about nutrients in this hobby is a lie.

Some of the most prominent people in our entire hobby run higher no3/po4 than anybody here ever would. And it does nothing to negatively impact them. In fact, they're paid to travel the world speaking on their knowledge base, and when they're asked about nutrients they always talk about keeping them crazy high.

 

[Newb73]

Definitely me too

a little confusing because you replied to a bunch of people but we are all here to learn and and our tanks can only gain from our knowledge

I think because this was widely discussed over the past couple years and it's widely accepted now that you need some nitrate and Phosphate for a healthy tank.

I get better results when i feed heavily than when i skimp. I don't skim any more and neglecting filter socks even helps sometimes.

This has more to do w established sysyems that already have lots of nutrient export goin on as its possible to over do it.

 

[Newb73]

People hate nutrients. People hate phosphates more than nitrates. If phosphates (the most evil nutrient) isn't bad, why would nitrates be bad?

Nitrates are basically diet phosphates on the "Nutrients are evil" scale. No nutrients are bad. Phosphates aren't bad. Nitrates aren't bad. Phosphates do NOT cause slowed growth of SPS. Nitrates alone do not cause brown corals. Basically almost everything people have been told about nutrients in this hobby is a lie.

Some of the most prominent people in our entire hobby run higher no3/po4 than anybody here ever would. And it does nothing to negatively impact them. In fact, they're paid to travel the world speaking on their knowledge base, and when they're asked about nutrients they always talk about keeping them crazy high.

Its more complicated than that. It is a balance issue.

What goes in must be balanced with what is consumed or exported.

The traditional advice is more of immature tanks, and it takes most tanks a couple years to mature.

This is subject to the maturity level of the tank, bioload, nutrient consumption and nutrient export.

The experts with mature tanks or that understand this balance have no issues with adding more nutrients or exporting less as long as the system is balanced.

Newbs on the other hand, can still absolutely get way way high levels of N&P and get into trouble.

 

[Rakie]

I think because this was widely discussed over the past couple years and it's widely accepted now that you need some nitrate and Phosphate for a healthy tank.

Yep. Every other day you get someone blasting in here from 2006 talking about how nutrients are bad... And it just feels like we finally finished a long war, and helped a few people out, then 10 minutes later you're being called a noob who needs to thank god for any and all results because nutrients are bad and you should feel bad for having them.

I think everybody here needs to buy a basic college level biology book and read it cover to cover. That alone would alleviate so much wasted effort. Because no matter what you say, doesn't matter if you're educated on the subject, knowledgeable on issues, able to think outside the box -- None of it matters.

You know WHY it doesn't matter?

Because: "OP has a friend who runs ZeoVit and his colors are slammin' yo. Clearly there's 1 way to reef only cuz I never saw a pale acro like his before. So ur wrong, l2reef." <---- This, in a nutshell, is whats wrong with the hobby. Not ZeoVit -- Hearsay. Nobody takes the time to learn, to question, to think differently. People in this hobby have to be drug kicking and screaming into the knowledge pool.

 

[ourcoralreef]

People hate nutrients. People hate phosphates more than nitrates. If phosphates (the most evil nutrient) isn't bad, why would nitrates be bad?

Nitrates are basically diet phosphates on the "Nutrients are evil" scale. No nutrients are bad. Phosphates aren't bad. Nitrates aren't bad. Phosphates do NOT cause slowed growth of SPS. Nitrates alone do not cause brown corals. Basically almost everything people have been told about nutrients in this hobby is a lie.

Some of the most prominent people in our entire hobby run higher no3/po4 than anybody here ever would. And it does nothing to negatively impact them. In fact, they're paid to travel the world speaking on their knowledge base, and when they're asked about nutrients they always talk about keeping them crazy high.

I was talking nitrates not phosphates they are not always intertwined as you can have zero one and high on the other

Nitrates feeds pest algae thats why most people want it out

Its great that all these prominent members of the community speak about this but one thing i notice thats a pattern there tanks are usually very big and they have allot more coral using these nutrients

As far as i can tell all these people use live rock in there displays and isn’t live rock to grow denitrifying bacteria

Back to op question marinepure gives you more surface area to grow this denitrifying bacteria its just replacing live rock

Not talking chemicals just marinepure

so why would filling your sump to the brim with live rock is a bad thing?

 

[ourcoralreef]

I think because this was widely discussed over the past couple years and it's widely accepted now that you need some nitrate and Phosphate for a healthy tank.

Yes agreed
marinepure will not remove all nutrients though it will help keep them at a manageable level though

This has more to do w established sysyems that already have lots of nutrient export goin on as its possible to over do it.

I think this is the key most people have problems within the first year and in smaller tanks

 

[ourcoralreef]

Yep. Every other day you get someone blasting in here from 2006 talking about how nutrients are bad... And it just feels like we finally finished a long war, and helped a few people out, then 10 minutes later you're being called a noob who needs to thank god for any and all results because nutrients are bad and you should feel bad for having them.

I think everybody here needs to buy a basic college level biology book and read it cover to cover. That alone would alleviate so much wasted effort. Because no matter what you say, doesn't matter if you're educated on the subject, knowledgeable on issues, able to think outside the box -- None of it matters.

You know WHY it doesn't matter?

Because: "OP has a friend who runs ZeoVit and his colors are slammin' yo. Clearly there's 1 way to reef only cuz I never saw a pale acro like his before. So ur wrong, l2reef." <---- This, in a nutshell, is whats wrong with the hobby. Not ZeoVit -- Hearsay. Nobody takes the time to learn, to question, to think differently. People in this hobby have to be drug kicking and screaming into the knowledge pool.

I also feel most people just want to be right and the way they know it is right when you give advice you need to be able to accept information from others those are the rules i go by