Should I dose nitrate/phosphate?

[Reefinmike]

Hey all, I have a 90g with a 55g sump. I restarted the tank by bleaching all of my rock to start “pest free”. It’s been running for 6 months now and generally speaking I am very happy with coral growth and how the tank is maturing. There are tons of copepods, spiroids, feather dusters, tunicates, coralline and somehow my bb sized baby trochus snails are spawning and producing more baby snails. While corals are healthy and growing fast, their color is rather muted when compared to the day I bought them. They are slowly getting brighter but nowhere near where they were. I’ve been toying with the idea of dosing nutrients like all the cool kids however i’m hesitant it’ll throw my tank out of whack and cause an algae outbreak. I’ve made a few attempts to passively raise nutrient by minimizing water changes(30% every 6 weeks), utilizing bioballs as a “nutrient trap”, changing my filter floss 2x a week vs daily, increasing feeding and allowing my skimmer to drain back in the sump. I must keep my skimmer running to draw in outside air and unfortunately allowing it to drain back in the sump causes my filter pads to clog with a bacterial slime within 12 hours. I have two small clownfish, one large clown, 4 bar gobies and one yt damsel. I increased my feeding from 2 grams of pe mysis to 3 grams two weeks ago and my nitrates are still at 0.0 with the nyos and red sea test. This is about twice as much as i’d normally feed these fish.

Would you dose? And if so what is the best nitrate/phosphate source? I’m not too keen on the tree stump decay powder some people use. Do you suggest a gradual increase? What is the best phosphate testing method should I start dosing? I’m extremely careful to move slowly and with purpose with my reef. I like to have two quality ways to test for everything I dose.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

Try cleaning less first.
Leave the skimmer alone if you can

 

[BoomCorals]

I'm with @saltyfilmfolks. I wouldn't rush into dosing Nitrates/Phosphates. Your tank looks great! I'd just feed a bit more, and maybe skip a water change now and again. Can you get a few more fish?

 

[Reefinmike]

Thanks boomcorals, I’m overall very happy with how the tank has matured and grown considering I pulled the rock out of bleach water just 6 months ago.

I’ve debated dosing nitrates for over a month now. Mainly to boost cheato growth to fight low Ph but also to help out the corals color. My cheato barely kept itself alive let alone grow any the past three months. As my corals grew i implemented kalk dosing to raise the ph. I considered over feeding with an auto feeder and you guys convinced me. This goes well with my slow and steady approach to reefing. I’d be perfectly happy with just 7 little fish however a tang would be a nice addition to consume more food and fill in for the urchin and hermits that ran out of algae and developed a taste for coral.

I picked up an eheim auto feeder and set it to feed an average of 0.3g spectrum pellets twice a day in conjunction with the 3 grams of pe mysis and seaweed flakes I dump in evey day. This is easily 3 times the amount of food i’d normally feed this fish load. Over the next couple weeks I’m going to wean the fish off of the daily frozen mysis and increase pellet feeding. I’ll work up to 3 or 4 pellet feedings a day and down to frozen every three days when I change filter floss or clean the skimmer.

 

[Coralreefer1]

I would not recommend dosing nitrates or phosphates. Their are so many ways for nitrates and phosphates to be introduced into our aquariums that it really makes no sense to add more.

 

[roberthu526]

Your tank is doing just fine so I really don’t think you should experiment with it.

 

[Subsea]

@Reefinmike

With respect to “brighter when I first got coral”, was that comparison from where you bought it or was that comparison when it was first in your tank under the same lighting that it has now?

In a mature reef tank, the Biofilter (Coral, algae, bacteria & sponges) is twice as effective at removing DOC as your protein skimmer. I have been skimmerless for > 30 years and see little benefit from protein skimmers with the exception of degassing. All of my tanks are designed around robust gas exchange at water air interface. Instead of dosing, you should consider a 12 hour rest period for skimmer operations during display tank photoperiod.

With respect to macro algae using carbon dioxide to grow, you could raise pH by increasing macro refugium photoperiod and/or intensity.

 

[PigFarmer]

oyster feast seems to be a much safer route to feed your tank No3 and po4. I too was considering dosing but was turned onto the oyster feast dosing/feeding to raise po4 and no3 by my LFS and its worked wonders for me. I'm now able to maintain .03po4 and 3to5ppm of nitrate by adding 20ml of the oyster feast everyother day to my 120gal tank. I've tried skipping this dosing as my tank is maturing and reached over 1 year now but within a week I'm rite back to zeros so I know this is working in my tank

 

[Coralreefer1]

oyster feast seems to be a much safer route to feed your tank No3 and po4. I too was considering dosing but was turned onto the oyster feast dosing/feeding to raise po4 and no3 by my LFS and its worked wonders for me. I'm now able to maintain .03po4 and 3to5ppm of nitrate by adding 20ml of the oyster feast everyother day to my 120gal tank. I've tried skipping this dosing as my tank is maturing and reached over 1 year now but within a week I'm rite back to zeros so I know this is working in my tank

Hi fellow “Deadhead”, Oyster Feast does a great job and corals love them!

 

[PigFarmer]

good Sunday morning brother! never miss a Sunday show! (@);} the inverts go bananas for it also.. my snails rise up outta the sand bed like zombies by the bakers dozen a few moments after it hits the water lol. It's truly the best move I've made in my reef tank since setting it up and my corals turned the corner for the good almost instantly.

 

[Coralreefer1]

Nothin’ shakin’ on Shakedown Street today...water changes on the tanks. Oyster Feast is expensive, though it is highly concentrated so a little last months. Dose that and Reef Roids or comparable planktonic food and the corals and inverts will be having a feast.

 

[Reefinmike]

Well, it’s been a few days since I increased feeding and corals appear to be reacting. Polyps have extended a bit more and color seems to be improving. Weird unknown algaes that i saw early on have started to reappear as well. I have my auto feeder feeding a third of a gram of seaweed extreme twice a day and I feed three grams of pe mysis soaked in selcon. Every three days I add~7-8 scoops of reef chili. This is ~3x what i think is appropriate for my current fish load.

Subsea- the colors are muted compared to what I remember as well as pictures taken 5-6 months back. I have seen slow improvement with some corals the past couple months as my tank has matured

pigfarmer- I may just have to give that a try and compare it to the reef chili that i have on deck. I started my tank using reef chili but it seemed to cause bacterial blooms that clogged filter pads. UV was also necessary to prevent filters from clogging. I removed my UV a month back, increased feeding slowly and filter pads haven’t been clogging up. This week I reimplemented reef chili in my once every three day routine- clean the skimmer, replace filter floss, test water and feed reef chili. Once i can detect nitrates i will transition feeding frozen daily to every third day.

 

[Subsea]

Hey all, I have a 90g with a 55g sump. I restarted the tank by bleaching all of my rock to start “pest free”. It’s been running for 6 months now and generally speaking I am very happy with coral growth and how the tank is maturing. There are tons of copepods, spiroids, feather dusters, tunicates, coralline and somehow my bb sized baby trochus snails are spawning and producing more baby snails. While corals are healthy and growing fast, their color is rather muted when compared to the day I bought them. They are slowly getting brighter but nowhere near where they were. I’ve been toying with the idea of dosing nutrients like all the cool kids however i’m hesitant it’ll throw my tank out of whack and cause an algae outbreak. I’ve made a few attempts to passively raise nutrient by minimizing water changes(30% every 6 weeks), utilizing bioballs as a “nutrient trap”, changing my filter floss 2x a week vs daily, increasing feeding and allowing my skimmer to drain back in the sump. I must keep my skimmer running to draw in outside air and unfortunately allowing it to drain back in the sump causes my filter pads to clog with a bacterial slime within 12 hours. I have two small clownfish, one large clown, 4 bar gobies and one yt damsel. I increased my feeding from 2 grams of pe mysis to 3 grams two weeks ago and my nitrates are still at 0.0 with the nyos and red sea test. This is about twice as much as i’d normally feed these fish.

Would you dose? And if so what is the best nitrate/phosphate source? I’m not too keen on the tree stump decay powder some people use. Do you suggest a gradual increase? What is the best phosphate testing method should I start dosing? I’m extremely careful to move slowly and with purpose with my reef. I like to have two quality ways to test for everything I dose.

@Reefinmike
When I reread your post, I noted that you were putting skimmate into your sump. That is quite unusual, but it is consistent with what BRS TV has documented with using a 25G macro refugium to maintain a 160G SPS display, by feeding the system 1/4 lb of protein every day. In that test, there was no protein skimmer and there was zero water change as prescribed by the Triton Method.

 

[Reefinmike]

@Subsea actually I am removing the skimmate. I tried letting it drain back into the sump for a week but my filter pads would clog quickly with bacterial slime. I may try it again now that the bacterial slime has subsided even with increased feedings and turning off my UV.

 

[Reefinmike]

Here is the green acro when i first brought it home many months ago. While it’s still healthy and thriving, color is nowhere near as deep as it could be.

 

[Reefinmike]

I borrowed a hanna ulr phosphate checker and tested my water a couple times. The first test showed 43 and the next hours later read 41. This translates to 0.13. I intend to buy a phosphate test eventually but i’m still weighing the pros and cons of different tests and the levels i intend to keep my tank at. I was given some lanthanum chloride to try out. Would you add this and how much to lower the phosphate to what level? My aquarium has a total water volume of 110gal. I tested my nitrates with my nyos kit and it showed a solid 0.0 again. I’ll borrow a red sea kit to verify this result tomorrow. I realize my phosphate level is fine but i’ve always been under the impression that nitrate and phosphate should be in a certain ratio.

Coral colors have improved in the past week but I cant be certain if it’s from increased feeding or the kalk dosing I started ~10 days ago. My ph has raised ~.1 peaking around 8.15. Though far from being a problem, some weird algaes have popped up. Bubbles build up in the sand and it appears a couple low flow spots are getting a tiny bit of cyano.

 

[Subsea]

While algae will assimilate nitrogen & phosphorous in 30:1 ratio, it is not required to maintain that ratio of 30:1. The nutrients only need to be high enough to be assimilated. Iron is often a limiting nutrient, which is why I dose iron weekly.

 

[JillBee]

Hey all! This is a great little thread. I have a AIO 40gal nano and have been considering the same things. It’s only a 3 months old but consistently testing zero on NO3 and PO4 (Red Sea test kits). I’ve just got a copepod bloom which I was very excited to see today. I have been over feeding reef frenzy, phytoplankton and reef roids trying to get the nutrients up and no budge. Took out the chemipure elite bag last night. Have a small refugium, protein skimmer and gfo media reactor. I’m new to the hobby and I think my problem was too much nutrient filtration. Anyways, love the idea of using oyster feast to help boost nutrients over dosing then. Just seems more natural to me. Thanks all for the great advice! Cheers and happy reefing!

 

[PigFarmer]

Hey all! This is a great little thread. I have a AIO 40gal nano and have been considering the same things. It’s only a 3 months old but consistently testing zero on NO3 and PO4 (Red Sea test kits). I’ve just got a copepod bloom which I was very excited to see today. I have been over feeding reef frenzy, phytoplankton and reef roids trying to get the nutrients up and no budge. Took out the chemipure elite bag last night. Have a small refugium, protein skimmer and gfo media reactor. I’m new to the hobby and I think my problem was too much nutrient filtration. Anyways, love the idea of using oyster feast to help boost nutrients over dosing then. Just seems more natural to me. Thanks all for the great advice! Cheers and happy reefing!

I would remove the chemipure and deffinatly take the GFO offline until you need it for phosphates if you ever do... Feed 1 capful of he reef oyster every other day for a week then do ur nitrate test again. see where it gets you

 

[fity2pounder]

Have you taken PAR readings? You sure they aren't bleaching out due to too much light? I've had that happen to me before. They look healthy and grow well, but too much white light caused them to lose color. Just a thought.