Snowflake Eel Dying??

[neson]

I'll try to get to the meat and potatoes asap. I had two eels for close to two years... a fresh moray and a snowflake. They both ate like crazy, usually the snowflake beasting the moray to get the most. The moray died about 4 months ago. Since then, the snowflake was moved to a bigger tank (130) all by itself. Soon after the switch, he was still eating. But about 3 months ago he stopped. It would show interest but then would go back in his cave. I would still leave pieces (silverside and clam) in the tank in case it wanted it later. Most of it seemed to disappear so I assumed he was eating. Today when I went to check on him, he was in the middle of the tank, face up, just suspended. He's not good. He has like zero fight in him. I tried hand feeding clam when his mouth is open, but he shakes his head and it comes out. I also tried using a turkey baster to shoot some krill into his mouth, hoping he'd swallow something, but he would "cough" everything out immediately. At this point I am out of ideas. I tried massaging him down the sides in hopes of finding a blockage and helping it pass through. Any ideas?
Ps : water parameters are all in good range... nitrates are a bit higher but he's been in far worse

 

[Daniel@R2R]

@Humblefish or @melypr1985 may be able to help. Also, @tyler1503 knows a good bit about eels, so I'll tag him in here too.

 

[Humblefish]

Unfortunately, eels are not my strong suit. But I know someone who does know lots about them: @Bob Loblaw

 

[PSLReefer]

I have kept many eels myself but I do not understand or know why they do this when they are about to pass. I've had 2 die in me.

I've seen it and read from others of the same symptoms in which are showing and unfortunately it will most likely die very soon. The typical zero fight left, limp, suspended head in water column.

Your best bet would be a necropsy.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Silversides and split clams both have elevated Thiaminase content, especially the clams.. If you were not soaking both in a vitamin supplement, I suspect thiamine deficiency syndrome(TDS) is the demise. Trunk winding shown in pics supports TDS as culprit.

 

[Webslinger]

I inject a vitamin supplement/Selcon into eveything I feed mine. I thin needle syringe is all you need. Takes a couple seconds.

 

[neson]

At his current state, is there anything that I can get? Possibly a B1 vitamin that I can pour in the water, since he won't (can't) eat? Or is it just a matter of time?

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Think it's too late at this point. I'd likely put it down at this point to ease suffering.


ETA---- Above is based on limited info and pics

 

[PSLReefer]

Bob, what about raw shrimp? Would it be wise to soak as well or really any foods?

 

[Bob Loblaw]

It's always a good idea to soak but shrimp are safe as far as thiaminase is concerned. I've never tried injecting the food but that sounds like a really good idea.

 

[Webslinger]

Don't soak them, inject them.

 

[savetheocean]

updates?

 

[neson]

Ok, so here's the latest. I figured that I had nothing to lose with this situation. Since I didn't (nor my LFS) have any vitamins... I went to GNC looking for a liquid B1 that I could put in the tank. All they had were pills for B1... so I said screw it. I got some pills, dissolved like 5 in water and used a syringe to squirt it in front of his face. I also ordered 2 day delivery for Selcon, Kent Zoe, and Vita Chem. If the eel died, then I at least had vitamins for my DT. The next morning I woke up and the previously limp eel was now moving erratically. I didn't know if it was a sign of fight to stay alive, or a sign he was on his way out. So I threw about 8 B1 pills in the tank and let him be. The next day he was still having issues floating its head at the top of the water with the rest of its body cork screwed down. It didn't look good, but after watching him for an hour, he swam through the tank and pvc pieces like normal, for about 2 minutes, and then went back the the head floating on the surface, and sideways or upside down. The vitamins got delivered and I dosed the hell out of the tank. I put in a little more than the recommended amounts of Zoe and VitaChem. I made sure to squirt it right in front of his face in hopes he'd take it in. Now he still wouldn't eat, so I put some drops of selcon in front of his face too. He shook his head at every drop. This went on for several days. Gradually he started swimming around a lot more and he was able to find the pvc tube and crawl in. This was the only time he could stay on the bottom and not float. Over the next two weeks I would keep doing the same routine... 10 B1 pills, and a few drops of all the vitamins. He still wouldn't eat. I tried switching from the silversides and clams to crab, muscles (smell horrible), and the large frozen krill. I even tried a couple live feeder fish to entice him... but as you can guess, they died from the salt in 2 minutes, so they made a snack for my DT. This morning while feeding my DT, he poked his head out of the tube. I stuck my finger in his tank and he startedp to come out after it, which I haven't seen in 3 months. I ran and grabbed a piece of krill and he actually came out and ate it! I ran to get two more pieces and he took those down just as quickly. I went an injected a fourth piece with a little selcon, but he swam away from that and back into a pipe. I'm not getting overly optimistic, as he could just have been starving and needed a quick bite. I don't know if the lack of vitamins will have a permanent effect, but this is the first time he ate in 3 months and it has given me some hope that he will be ok. I don't know if the GNC pills, or Zoe, or VitaChem had any effect... or he just wanted to be a stubborn butt. But me and Lincoln Burrows thank you all for your input!

 

[Earl Karl]

Yep, definitely your eel was suffering from thiaminase poisoning. Glad your eel is doing well now. Hopefully, it can continue to get better and live a healthy life. It is important what we feed to our eels. Silversides and clams are usually one of the worse thing you can feed long term. Your methods of treating can be useful for other predator fishkeepers to know.

 

[HonorableWhat]

I inject a vitamin supplement/Selcon into eveything I feed mine. I thin needle syringe is all you need. Takes a couple seconds.

Hi, I came across this when looking up more info on my snowflake eel (she is fine and growing more and more everyday)

And I don't inject and or soak her krill/scallops/shrimp in any vitamins, but sounds like I need to start!

Do you have products you'd recommend I get to start doing this?
Obviously selcom but anything else?

 

[lion king]

Hi, I came across this when looking up more info on my snowflake eel (she is fine and growing more and more everyday)

And I don't inject and or soak her krill/scallops/shrimp in any vitamins, but sounds like I need to start!

Do you have products you'd recommend I get to start doing this?
Obviously selcom but anything else?

The real culprit is thiaminese, many predators including eels suffer from a high thiaminese diet in captivity. Lfs krill is the worst food you can feed, very high is thiaminese. You can get fresh frozen human grade from an Asian market that will still have viable nutritional value. Feeding human grade seafood, purchased fresh when possible and frozen in small batches, nutritional value is depleted from improperly frozen and expired food. Whole shrimp, as eels get the cleaned version in the wild, just cut them to bite size pieces and trim any sharp shell edges. I have never seen supplementation work over the long haul, cut down on thiaminese and feed fresh human grade seafood. You can click my name and "find all threads" for more info on feeding predators. If you soak vitamins much of it rinses off trying to feed eels, so if you do use it, injecting is better. An added tip, stuff pellets high in vitamin B1 into seafood chunks.