So many choices - kid in a sweet shop content

[mrbluefox]

*spolier alert* this isn't a thread about some lovely corals..

It is, however, about all the wonderful bits of shiny new kit I need help picking when re-designing my aquarium.

Having been an avid reef-keeper for over a decade, I know the ins and outs; the fact today's must-have is tomorrow's trash-talk and whilst there is a premium to be paid from time to time, buy cheap buy twice is still a good rule of thumb.

So why can't I just go and create my schematic of what I want to achieve? Well - filtration and automation I guess are my biggest areas that need some clarification.

As mentioned in another thread, automation is a big draw to me (another pair of eyes, taking out some of the tasks I find mundane and management of stable conditions are my success factors) and having seen some of the BRS TV stuff around chaeto algae refugiums being a genuine contender for the only means of nutrient export. With that and Triton, it could actually give me the means of being able to appreciate my tank rather than worry constantly about it being on the knife-edge!!

So, internet of greatness, if I wanted to look at a mixed aquarium that had LED lighting (AI/Ecotech), water movement (powered by Maxspect gyre, Ecotech or Tunze), where do I need to look for the remainder? With LR and algae, is the skimmer still a necessity is the argument shifting to it stripping out more than it'd benefit if the algae was large enough. Is algae-only nutrient export a snake-oil?

My intention around control needs to be accessible by tablet or phone over the internet so I can get my geek on from afar and have operability with the above.

Thanks!

 

[norfolkgarden]

Following. Thanks for the thread!

 

[mrbluefox]

In all my years, I wouldn’t have expected this...the internet has run out of opinions...i can feel the universe imploding as we speak!

So I’ll kick things off: I’m getting closer to considering Triton and an algae farm as my main supplement to biological filtration. This begs the question as to whether a skimmer is necessary. How are people running skimmers withTriton at the moment? Same size? Smaller? Skimmate produced? Running on reduced patterns? Day/night shift etc?

 

[Captmcfly]

We need a budget? I can suggest all kinds of kid that would be automated and WiFi accessible. With the slew of controllers and sensors available to us today in the hobby and industrial apps that the possibility’s are endless!

 

[norfolkgarden]

Not trying to highjack the thread. [emoji4]

Lol, for a budget how about under 5K for a 75 gallon tank?

 

[amps]

Go for the refugium and splurge on a quality light. I just setup a 70G tank to use as a chaeto fuge on my 180g DT. Using an Evergrow 90w Refgium light and a hunk of chaeto roughly the size of a softball, I was able to lower my nitrates from 10ppm to 0.2 in 2 weeks. The chaeto is now 24"x 10" x 8" and rockin.

However, I still have my skimmer going at full tilt. It's my first line of defense and I believe it pulls things out of the water before it can break down to feed the chaeto. It's output is almost 50% of what it was before the fuge went online but it's still working. I say use both.

 

[mrbluefox]

Jbomb001 not sure why a budget is required. Talk to me about principles. All the budget in the world wouldn't make a tank ran with the most expensive bleach run like a dream.

It's not about spending for the sake of it but if someone tells me it's £120000 to monitor my pH to within 0.00001 decimal place and it's £1000 to monitor it within 0.1 dp. Or £1 to monitor pH but 8/10 it tells me my pH is lower than my stomach then I'll know what to pick.

Who are the main players?

Let's look at cars...

A Lamborghini will set me back a lot, an Audi less and a Dacia... Well they'd have to pay me to take it away. Do they all take me from A to B? Yes. How do I want to get there? Well I don't want to walk else I wouldn't be looking at cars. What I'm asking is what's it like to go via Lambo vs Audi vs Dacia?

Well actually Neil most go for the Lambo, because the Dacia always breaks down and the Audi is worth the extra for the bells and whistles.

Make sense?

 

[Zack K]

My personal Recomendations are to run a skimmer. l prefer the NYOS skimmers but that up to you. l like radions if you want to go with the MP line for powerheads (no cords in the water) and Vectra Return pump they all run off of 1 controller. l also am a fan of the Apex. Their is so many widgets to add on its mind blowing.

 

[mrbluefox]

@amps @Zack

Do you fear the skimmers will be pulling out good stuff too? How'd you aim to replace the losses? Added Triton, water changes? What would give you confidence to switch the skimmer off?

 

[DeepBlueSomething]

In my research it seems like regardless of chaeto a skimmer is best practice. The brand and size varies, but it seems to be useful across the board. I haven't researched Triton enough to confirm, but IMO more ways to control nutrients is better than less -- you can always skim lighter or not constantly.

Apex controllers have very broad controls and are accessible anywhere via internet - I believe. So that might be important consideration -- however, they interface with various brands more directly than others.

 

[mrbluefox]

In my research it seems like regardless of chaeto a skimmer is best practice. The brand and size varies, but it seems to be useful across the board. I haven't researched Triton enough to confirm, but IMO more ways to control nutrients is better than less -- you can always skim lighter or not constantly.

Apex controllers have very broad controls and are accessible anywhere via internet - I believe. So that might be important consideration -- however, they interface with various brands more directly than others.

That last part of your sentence is most interesting. Are other controllers focusing on more strategic alignment to specific "systems" or are Apex just better at playing with everyone in the playground?

 

[Captmcfly]

Apex systems have a verity of inputs and outputs that can be controlled via software. Accessible via WiFi . Pretty easy system to control . If x is below this set point then do this if above do this instead. Can be paired with power strips or wired direct to devices or relays that control other devices. It’s basically a plc for your aquarium. This is why I asked about a budget... I am a union electrician and have worked in control systems that range from 600 bucks to 2 million. It all depends on your goal. Do you want to be notified if there is water on the floor ? If so you need a sensor for that and in input and output for it. temperature control = sensor and I/O. For *** . Ph monitoring ? Alk ? Ato? Level sensor and pumps also need valve. Automatic water change ? Timers and more pumps. .. not trying make it sound intimidating or anything just saying there are way too many options. As for sensors there are different grades of sensors they range from cheapish to vary expensive lab grade. Take a water level sensor. There is a simple float switch which is a simple normal open or normal closed. Or you can get an optical sensor that is resistance based... but from what I have read here I would think an apex Neptune system with an assortment of dosing pumps along with the flow pumps you have listed you should be able accomplish most anything.

 

[amps]

@amps @Zack

Do you fear the skimmers will be pulling out good stuff too? How'd you aim to replace the losses? Added Triton, water changes? What would give you confidence to switch the skimmer off?

Skimmers have been such an important filtration device for so long now, I don't think we can question it's effectiveness. Some people get by without them but on medium to large tanks, they do an amazing job removing crud from the water and creating a strong air/water interface for offgassing CO2.

Having said that, they need to be used properly. If you're system is getting pale and zeroing out on nitrates then maybe you need to turn it off for a few hours everyday. Since my refugium has taken off I've had to make sure that I feed my corals much more frequently to keep them happy. I currently feed Reef-Roids and phytoplankton three times a week along with a ton of food for my fish. I utilize my Apex to shutdown my skimmer for 45mins every time I initiate my feed cycle. That part is important to prevent a powerful skimmer from going insane and sucking every last drop of zooplankton and particulate you just dosed out of the water.

 

[mrbluefox]

Skimmers have been such an important filtration device for so long now, I don't think we can question it's effectiveness. Some people get by without them but on medium to large tanks, they do an amazing job removing crud from the water and creating a strong air/water interface for offgassing CO2.

Having said that, they need to be used properly. If you're system is getting pale and zeroing out on nitrates then maybe you need to turn it off for a few hours everyday. Since my refugium has taken off I've had to make sure that I feed my corals much more frequently to keep them happy. I currently feed Reef-Roids and phytoplankton three times a week along with a ton of food for my fish. I utilize my Apex to shutdown my skimmer for 45mins every time I initiate my feed cycle. That part is important to prevent a powerful skimmer from going insane and sucking every last drop of zooplankton and particulate you just dosed out of the water.

And I think that's a really important distinction you've made there around maybe not a case of binary "on/off" skimming but how /much/ we should be skimming.

There's no denying they take a lot of crap out of the water but they also take anything that will stick to the edge of a bubble so non discriminatory in that respect. And it's now time to start thinking of them not as a compromise that must always be on, to more a supplementary role when used in conjunction with algae-based nutrient export?

 

[Captmcfly]

I have my skimmer on a 4hr cycle it comes on for four hrs then off for four then on and then off and so on. My feuge takes care of most if not all of my nitrate so the skimmer is indeed supplemental.