SPS failures .. could it be our calcium source ??

[eskymick]

For more than a year now, many of us have been experiencing seemingly "unsolvable" problems with our reefs.... in particular, with SPS corals. I know many of us had great success caring for colorful, robust, and fast growing SPS colonies. It seemed so easy. It was fun. Now, for many, it has gone from a fun, fulfilling hobby to a source of frustration and stress.

We've all been scratching our collective heads wondering what we've done wrong or what we're doing differently to cause such a drastic turn-around in relative success. We've blamed ULN systems, we've blamed our water supply, we've blamed disease, and on and on... but none of it seems to pass the muster of consistency. For whatever problems we seem to rectify, the main problem of SPS "failures" persists.

For myself, I've lost close to 3/4 of my once very mature SPS reef. Those that remain are struggling to stay alive. Forget about growth. Now for the past several months, after 5 years of no such "problem". My reef is becoming an ever thickening mat of hair algae. As I have for several years, I continue to run both a nitrate reactor, a GFO reactor and a carbon reactor. The algae growth now seems to outpace my ability to change out the media in them . Nitrates consistently test at zero (as they always have). My only conclusion is that I have a source of phosphates that is outpacing the ability of the GFO to remove them. In addition, my substrate and even the "detritus" in the sump are now solidifying. Even in my GFO reactor ... if I leave the GFO in the reactor for more that 2 weeks, it becomes hard as a rock. I never experienced any of these problems in the past.

It finally dawned on me that the only thing I've changed in the past year is my source of calcium supplement. And this fact alone brings me to the question I present in this thread:

About a year ago, we had a group buy in the FVRC for large bags of the 2-part supplements we all use in our reefs. In preparing these supplements for use, I've always noted a clay-like sediment which precipitated from the calcium mix. I never gave it much thought .. thinking it was perhaps dirt or sand. In checking the ingredient list on the bag, I find that, in addition to calcium chloride, there is also sodium chloride and potassium chloride. Fine enough .. no problem.

What I am suggesting here, is that there may be some other unlisted "impurity" in that product that is the root cause of many of our problems. In a bit of research, I found that sometimes sodium phosphate is added to rock salt as an anti-clumping agent. Could it be? Or, could it be another impurity?

Can anyone else trace their "problems" to a time shortly after the introduction of this calcium supplement to their reef maintenance regimen ?

 

[Bri Guy]

Where was the group buy through? I did get in one awhile back through Limpit. But I didn't get calcium and am NOT having any problems with my SPS.

Good observation for a possible cause.

 

[eskymick]

Yes, that was the group buy. And I'm certainly not trying to put any blame on the organizer or purchaser. I'm sure even the manufacturer doesn't know exactly what all of the "trace" ingredients are. After all, it's not marketed for salt water reefs.

 

[drew.michael]

I can! I went in on this group buy with mick, so i am using the same stuff from the same bag, or was shal i say.

Mick has always used a dosing pump with the tube draped into the container the calcium mix is in and the tube goes to the bottom of the container where the "sediment" lies. Myself on the other hand did not use a dosing pump until relatively recently. So, I was always dosing from the top of the container with a measuring cup. It seemed to me that shortly after getting the dosing pump clocked in and the levels where they need to be did i too start having the same issues. I too was now sucking the "stuff" off the bottom of the container.

I lost quite a few corals as well. AND of all the time I have done this never an issue like this til now. My seperate softy system that I keep the calcium level up by doing frequent water changes, has no issues whatsoever.

After a recent order from Bulk Reef Supply, did this all come to mind when we mixed up a new batch of calcium. The stuff from them totally dissolves and there are no "leftovers" on the bottom of the container.

To me something just wasn't right with that other stuff and I will be using the bulk reef supply stuff from now on.

Siropa, the issues we have experienced have been very similar to the ones you had or have. Any insight on that? Did you too go in on that group buy?

 

[Fishcrazy06]

Siropa's Problems I think derived more from running Zeo. The only thing I think Bill used for Calcium supplementation was the Use of Mrs. Wages. I am sure he will chime in on this but I am sure he used Kalk for his calcium supplement. His issues derived from Zeo but I could be wrong. I have used the Calcium chloride but not to the same issues. However, with that being said I didn't use it long term nor did I have a lot of SPS at the time!

 

[eskymick]

Siropa's Problems I think derived more from running Zeo........ His issues derived from Zeo but I could be wrong.

I used the Zeo system, too. Other than a cyano outbreak in the beginning, I considered my experience with Zeo to be very positive. I began to have "issues" in my reef a month or two after Siropa's problems began. Not knowing what else to attribute to the declining health of my SPS corals, I too, wondered if Zeo was the culprit. I switched back to the "old" methods of carbon and GFO reactors and a macro algae sump. Much like Siropa, the decline of my reef continued unabated. This all began in July of last year.

Since that time, all but the hardiest of SPS corals have died off. Despite continued GFO use, I am now experiencing nuisance algae growth (as described in my original post).

I feed once a day (very lightly) with well-rinsed mysis. and use only RO/DI water for top-off and water changes. My fish population is small. One blue tang and a handful of rock dwelling "nano" fish.

I obviously have a source of nutrients that outpaces all efforts of removal.

 

[kevchem]

Take some (I won't suggest an amount here -you decide) of the calcium supplement and dissolve it in an acid solution (muriatic?) so you don't have any undissolved material. The acid will get any phosphate salt like Ca3(PO4)2 to dissolve as well. Dilute with water so the acid is only 10% of the total volume. Then run your phosphate test on it and see what happens. If it is dark blue I'd say yes there is significant phosphate in there. If only a pale blue then it is probably not enough phosphate to make a difference once diluted in the tank.

Kevin

 

[eskymick]

Take some (I won't suggest an amount here -you decide) of the calcium supplement and dissolve it in an acid solution (muriatic?) so you don't have any undissolved material. The acid will get any phosphate salt like Ca3(PO4)2 to dissolve as well. Dilute with water so the acid is only 10% of the total volume. Then run your phosphate test on it and see what happens. If it is dark blue I'd say yes there is significant phosphate in there. If only a pale blue then it is probably not enough phosphate to make a difference once diluted in the tank.

Kevin

Like drew.michael, I've recently switched to a calcium suppliment purchased from BRS. However, for the sake of curiousity, I will gather the materials to test the rock salt supplement, as you suggested. Thanks for the idea.

 

[jlinzmaier]

How many people are using this calcium supplement? Have they ALL had catastrophic SPS death?? What exactly is the supplement (dowflake)??

The only people that I know of which have had massive SPS die off are you and Bill. Has anyone else had such catastrophic events?? If it's just you and Bill that have had this major die off then I would still keep the zeo process in mind as a possible cause just without an exact correlation to exactly how or why it happened. An exact correlation or explanation may never be determined as the zeo process and other means of major nutrient reduction, via bacterial proliferation, is still very unknown in regards to how it directly impacts symbiotic coral bacteria and how proliferation of other bacteria inside a reef tank can affect corals. What I noticed while using the zeo process is that the nutrient reduction process was a large eb and flow based on the carbon dosing. Once nutrients hit low levels (indicating a decrease in carbon dosing) then it would often take up to two weeks for the tank to show the change in carbon dosing, meanwhile, the nutrients were continually being reduced until the new carbon dose/bacterial population balanced with the nutrient load. This often led to further coral stress and death as the vital nutrients continued to be removed until the bacterial population got in check with the new carbon dosing amount. The carbon dosing seemed to turn into a bit of a built up energy for nutrient reduction and by the time you see that the carbon dosing needs to be slowed, it will still continue to diminish vital nutrients until the bacterial populations are back in check. I often quickly combated this with immediate high doses of AA's which help the nutrient issues but caused other problems as well . This nutrient reduction process may have lead you to initially see positive results (as did Bill) but what I'm seeing as a common occurrence is that as the zeo tanks become established in the zeo process they can look great one day, then look a little stressed the next, and then start losing tissue by the next week. Once one coral starts losing tissue and dying off it can then create an unexplainable and not fully understood chain reaction of coral death. Obviously this isn't the case in all zeo tanks, but this is a common occurrence I've read about.



In regards to the massive die off, for unexplained reasons, often when a large SPS colony dies (for whatever reason), many times that will trigger a large die off and continue like a plague and wipe out most SPS. Unfortunately, this phenomenon isn't entirely explainable or fully understood yet. The orginal problem may have caused the one or two colonies to initially die but it's quite possible that the simply set off the chain reaction for the others to die. This plague like die off doesn't occur in all situations in which a large colony will die off but I have seen people posting with this occurrance many times and a carbon source is coincidently used in most cases.

In regards to the algea, I suspect the massive die off of the animals is certainly a source of fuel for algae growth. The death of all those corals has released a large amount of decomposing tissue into your tank.

The clumping of any substrate or GFO sounds like abiotic precipitation. This suggests an imbalance and problem with your alk, ca, or mag levels. These clumps may very well be created due to the formation of calcium phosphate binding the substrate together. Calcium phosphate can be later broken apart and release the phosphate into the water column which could also be fueling the algae growth.

Really hope things turn around for you!!

Jeremy

 

[Bri Guy]

I remember reading about the Dow and Mag flake having excess bromide in the newer stuff, so maybe thats what should be tested for, not phosphate...

Bromide in Dowflake may be OK w/water changes - Reef Central Online Community

 

[siropa]

Yup I bought the bulk stuff that time as well, but I have never gotten around to using it in my system. The only stuff i've used is from BRS.

I'm still blaming some aspect of zeo.