Strange Ring on Hi Fin Goby

[FullSend]

I have a QT setup with 2 smith blennies and 3 Hi Fin Gobies, 1 of the hi fin gobies is not likely to make it through the night. That would be the 3rd Hi Fin Goby casualty in just under 2 weeks, 1 smith blenny also passed. Each of the gobies was eating well, then became reculsive, was found breathing heavily on the bottom, and passed soon after. I followed this schedule for TTM in 10g aquariums: I either used 100ppm of bleach for 24 hours with 12 hours of dry time after or allowed the equipment to dry for 36 hours.

12/2 9:30am Fish recieved
12/3 10pm fish moved
12/4 9am prazi
12/5 9am fish moved
12/6 9pm fish moved
12/8 9am fish moved
12/9 9pm fish moved
12/10 9am Prazi
12/11 9am fish moved
12/14 8am fish moved


Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Quarantine tank
Aquarium water volume: 10g TTM
Filtration type: None/Prime
Lighting: Small LED Light
How long has the aquarium been established? TTM, Rotating aquariums ever 36 hours then 72
Digital image of the aquarium under white light

This is the final observation QT. TTM tanks were similar glass aquarium with pvc. Either an empty HOB filter or maxi jet for flow.

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using)
~12 hour newly mixed IO salt
Temperature: 76-78 F
pH:
Salinity / specific gravity: 1.021
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
Phosphorus: 0 ppm
Copper: 0ppm

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? Fish are new arrivals, One died within 24 hours of arriving, 12/3, one died a week into TTM, 12/10, pictured fish is not likely to survive tonight, 12/14
Are any invertebrates affected? N/A
Respiration rate of affected fish (in gill beats per minutes, count for 15 seconds and multiply by 4): 80 - 100
Are the affected fish still feeding? No
What remedies have you tried so far? 13 days of TTM, Two treatment of Prazi, Tried a methylene blue dip earlier today no change - probably too late
Digital image of the fish with the health issue, taken under white light

There's a strange ring on the third stripe

I have a microscope, should I look for anything in particular?

Can velvet suffocate a fish without any spots on the fins? The fins on all fish have been smooth and clear

What could the ring on the fish be? I don't recall seeing this on the other fish

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for filling out the problem report!

First, full disclosure - I'm not a big fan of TTM. I haven't used it much, primarily because we quarantine dozens to hundreds of fish in 800 gallon tanks and I can't scale the method up to that.

My problems with it are threefold:
1) It creates undue handling stress
2) It only works with some diseases, and it doesn't manage gill flukes, Uronema or Neobenedenia.
3) I just don't think fish do well in tanks with no bio-filter and no microbiome.

Are you 100% positive you are getting rid of all of the bleach? Are you sure you have 5.25% hypochlorite and that your bleach doesn't have any soaps in it? Lately, it seems all bleach has extra stuff added to it. I found some good bleach at Gordon Food Service. Are you breaking the surface tension of the water to drive off excess CO2? The circle lesion is unusual - any chance the blenny tagged it? They do sometimes call those fangblennys.

Some general observations - Instant Ocean, when freshly mixed, has 0.25 ppm of ammonia in it as a contaminant. This means that the fish are already going to be stressed, even in freshly mixed water. If your test kit is reading zero, it just isn't accurate enough to read that low. The breathing at 80-100 is a bit fast, I'd say 60-80 would be normal.

Since you have a microscope, if you get to the fish within a couple of hours of it dying, definitely look at a section of gills; round dark spots could be Amyloodinium (velvet) and any twitchy worms are gill flukes. Scape the ring lesion also, just to see if you find any protozoans that might indicate Uronema.

Jay

 

[FullSend]

Thanks for filling out the problem report!

No problem, thanks for your time!

Are you 100% positive you are getting rid of all of the bleach? Are you sure you have 5.25% hypochlorite and that your bleach doesn't have any soaps in it?

I dosed prime on the off chance that it didn't all evaporate. Should have detoxified the ammonia you mention later too.

I did my best to find actual bleach. I ended up with the great value bottle.

It's listed at 7.5% sodium hypochlorate. I used .5 cup in 10 gallons for 100ppm for 24 hours.

Now that I look even closer it has the statement "When compared to bleach that only contains sodium hypochlorite and water". So there must be something else in it. I went through 4 stores trying to find just bleach...

Lately, it seems all bleach has extra stuff added to it. I found some good bleach at Gordon Food Service. Are you breaking the surface tension of the water to drive off excess CO2? The circle lesion is unusual - any chance the blenny tagged it? They do sometimes call those fangblennys.

Yes the HOB filter was breaking the surface tension. When I used the maxi jet for 2 of the TTM stints, I had it pointed at the surface and it created a standing wave of sorts.

I did witness a blenny take a swipe at a goby but couldn't tell you if the fangs were involved. I'd think the wound would be more look more like two punctures, think tiny staple remover, or possibly a longer cut if they dragged across the fish.

Some general observations - Instant Ocean, when freshly mixed, has 0.25 ppm of ammonia in it as a contaminant. This means that the fish are already going to be stressed, even in freshly mixed water. If your test kit is reading zero, it just isn't accurate enough to read that low. The breathing at 80-100 is a bit fast, I'd say 60-80 would be normal.

The fish was near the end. Could have been breathing faster at some point. The fish did die.

Since you have a microscope, if you get to the fish within a couple of hours of it dying, definitely look at a section of gills; round dark spots could be Amyloodinium (velvet) and any twitchy worms are gill flukes. Scape the ring lesion also, just to see if you find any protozoans that might indicate Uronema.

Jay

I do have a microscope, but I'd consider that different than being skilled with a microscope.

Tail Fin 1 - 200x

Tail Fin 2 - 200x

Tail Fin 3 - 200x

Tail Fin 4 - 200x

Gill Tissue 1 - 200x

Gill Tissue 2 - 200x

Gill Tissue 3 - 200x

Gill Tissue 4 - 200x

Gill Tissue 5 - 200x

Gill Tissue 6 - 200x or 500x

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Anything moving under the scope? The gills are definitely damaged an congested, but I can’t tell why. Bacteria/toxicity/parasites are all possible. The spots on the tail looked tantalizingly like something, but in the end I think the spots are just chromatophores.
Jay

 

[FullSend]

No movement.

Would ich or velvet have shown up at that magnification level?

I'm guessing flukes certainly would have?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

No movement.

Would ich or velvet have shown up at that magnification level?

I'm guessing flukes certainly would have?

Yes, you would have seen both ich and velvet - I actually use 40x to 80x for almost everything I look at, so looking at your higher magnification threw me off a bit...
Jay