Stuck in a "which anthias" loop - please help

[carri10]

Hiya All.
I'm looking to get a group of Anthais for my tank - 330gallons, been running for 2.5 years.
I've done a ton of research, focusing on best colour (of males AND females) and most likely to not beat each other up.

I've come down to the following:
1) Carberryi
2) Ignitus
3) Tuka
4) Smithvanizi (princess)

So, questions - are there any real differences between Carberryi and Ignitus - they seem pretty similar?

I can feed Reef Frenzy through an Avast plank, releasing into the return pump line.
I really want the Tuka, but I'm afraid I won't be able to meet their needs. Is this feeding regime enough?

What would your advice be here?

Thanks.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

@i cant think

 

[carri10]

edit - meant Reef Jerky, not reef frenzy. oops.

 

[braaap]

In my experience Ignitus WILL beat each other up. I kept a group in my tank for about 2 years. Then they slowly picked each other off. Never looked thin. Fed like crazy. Just slowly noticed damage on them one by one. When I was down to one left it just faded and died. I don't have experience with the others you have listed.

 

[carri10]

In my experience Ignitus WILL beat each other up. I kept a group in my tank for about 2 years. Then they slowly picked each other off. Never looked thing. Fed like crazy. Just slowly noticed damage on them one by one. When I was down to one left it just faded and died. I don't have experience with the others you have listed.

Thanks for input. Appreciate it. I definately don't want any excess bullying. Going to get about 7 to spread aggression out, but bullying is hard for me to take in a tank.

 

[braaap]

Thanks for input. Appreciate it. I definately don't want any excess bullying. Going to get about 7 to spread aggression out, but bullying is hard for me to take in a tank.

Ya I get that. I have a big cart of fish built on Dr Reef to finish off my tank. I'm going to add a large group of Lyretail again because in my experience they are the calmest anthias. I used AI to help really compare all of them and the inhabitants of my tank and what I wanted. Give it a shot. It isn't always perfect but it helps break down the good and the bad and really helped me with things I totally skimmed over.

 

[BryanM]

1) Carberryi
2) Ignitus
3) Tuka
4) Smithvanizi (princess)

My brief research says that the Tuka is extremely hard to care for (feed) and usually starve to death. If you can find one that an LFS has, and it readily accepts thawed frozen foods (make the LFS prove it), I'd consider it.

Far safer is the Carberryi

 

[areefer01]

Could always add a 6th to the list and add Pink Square Anthias. You mentioned a 300+ gallon tank so it could handle the size of them (6 - 8"). Also captive bred/raised so would arrive small and eating prepared foods already.

Captive bred, at least mine, has a dominate male but has not transitioned to the full coloration. Even after 3 or 4 years of keeping them. There is a clear hierarchy though, no arguing that. But no fighting to the death of the dominate female trying to take over. Just normal anthias stuff of the dominate male nudging, pushing, the others.

 

[carri10]

Could always add a 6th to the list and add Pink Square Anthias. You mentioned a 300+ gallon tank so it could handle the size of them (6 - 8"). Also captive bred/raised so would arrive small and eating prepared foods already.

Captive bred, at least mine, has a dominate male but has not transitioned to the full coloration. Even after 3 or 4 years of keeping them. There is a clear hierarchy though, no arguing that. But no fighting to the death of the dominate female trying to take over. Just normal anthias stuff of the dominate male nudging, pushing, the others.

Thanks for the info - I did not know they were available tank bred. I always prefer tank bred where possible. I'll have a look into that.

 

[carri10]

My brief research says that the Tuka is extremely hard to care for (feed) and usually starve to death. If you can find one that an LFS has, and it readily accepts thawed frozen foods (make the LFS prove it), I'd consider it.

Far safer is the Carberryi

yep, I'm leaning that way too. The tuka's are beautiful, but seem hard. I was just wondering if the plank feeder and reef jerky would be enough to keep them going. To get the tuka's here in EU, i might have to go mail order - which is not a good idea.

 

[BryanM]

yep, I'm leaning that way too. The tuka's are beautiful, but seem hard. I was just wondering if the plank feeder and reef jerky would be enough to keep them going. To get the tuka's here in EU, i might have to go mail order - which is not a good idea.

Yep... I also tend to avoid expert only fish. Oddly though they are not priced through the stratosphere, but I like having a high success rate for longevity.

 

[areefer01]

yep, I'm leaning that way too. The tuka's are beautiful, but seem hard. I was just wondering if the plank feeder and reef jerky would be enough to keep them going. To get the tuka's here in EU, i might have to go mail order - which is not a good idea.

With regards to the plank. I use a blend of freeze dried and two sizes of pellet. Basically I mix in freeze dried copepods, arctic copepods, brine shrimp, pacifica krill, rotifers, and cool green flake. I also add in TDO small and NLS pellets. Schedule is to run 5 times a day with a auger run time of 2 minutes. I tested this outside the tank over a paper plate to see how much food is actually dropped. Adjusted from there. I have one feeding before lights are on as I have couple of early risers.

I know a couple of hobbyist who do similar one keeping a large group of purple queens another with a group of lyretails. In either case I would not be shy of feeding more frequently smaller portions. I also add in 1 decent size frozen before lights out.

 

[carri10]

With regards to the plank. I use a blend of freeze dried and two sizes of pellet. Basically I mix in freeze dried copepods, arctic copepods, brine shrimp, pacifica krill, rotifers, and cool green flake. I also add in TDO small and NLS pellets. Schedule is to run 5 times a day with a auger run time of 2 minutes. I tested this outside the tank over a paper plate to see how much food is actually dropped. Adjusted from there. I have one feeding before lights are on as I have couple of early risers.

I know a couple of hobbyist who do similar one keeping a large group of purple queens another with a group of lyretails. In either case I would not be shy of feeding more frequently smaller portions. I also add in 1 decent size frozen before lights out.

Really interesting - Thanks.
A couple of points - Interesting you do a feed before lights are on. I hadn't thought about that, but it's a great way to feed some fish without the crazy frenzy that gathers around when I feed when everyone is awake. I'm going to find out who gets up early.

Second is that you know people who do manage to keep Tukas, using a plank and correctly chosen food. Did they find it easy to get them into this regime, or was there a long period to get from (e.g) baby brine to the type of foods that a plank can deliver?
I have a strong current from my return pump and I would have the plank in my sump. The food would therefore come right out in the return stream, which will make it more enticing for Anthias.

 

[areefer01]

Really interesting - Thanks.
A couple of points - Interesting you do a feed before lights are on. I hadn't thought about that, but it's a great way to feed some fish without the crazy frenzy that gathers around when I feed when everyone is awake. I'm going to find out who gets up early.

Second is that you know people who do manage to keep Tukas, using a plank and correctly chosen food. Did they find it easy to get them into this regime, or was there a long period to get from (e.g) baby brine to the type of foods that a plank can deliver?
I have a strong current from my return pump and I would have the plank in my sump. The food would therefore come right out in the return stream, which will make it more enticing for Anthias.

With regards to early morning pre light feeding. It is for a Yellow Assessor and Upside Down Goby oddly enough. Pre light feeding is a good way to get food into the water column in a more calm way. The damsels and anthias are fast and it causes a bit of chaos during feedings. This seemed to help reduce that stress.

With regards to the Purples the trick if I remember correctly was to get them on larger food as quickly as possible. They started with hatching brine and feeding multiple times a day (5 I am thinking). Once that took then they started to mix in frozen of various sizes along with freeze dried. Once the larger food was taken it was a breeze. They also use the plank and feed frequently. During the initial process they kept track of nitrate and phosphates.

I also want to add that if I remember correctly that he rolled the dice and did not QT. I do not remember the source of the animals as that is somewhat important. I will say that I have added a couple of fish directly for similar reasons. I feel some need the reef structure to feel safe or forage. In these rare cases I assess the risk and go from there. Obviously something to consider and do with caution.

Edit: One of the hobbyist tank size is about 330 - 340 gallons. Acropora. 7 or so years old. The other is 760 gallons. Also Acropora.

 

[Uncle99]

The best Anthais I’ve owned are the Lyretails.
They are colourful, easy to obtain, inexpensive and super resilient, always out and about, need only two feedings a day, super easy to keep and form nice groups.

 

[areefer01]

The best Anthais I’ve owned are the Lyretails.
They are colourful, easy to obtain, inexpensive and super resilient, always out and about, need only two feedings a day, super easy to keep and form nice groups.

I will say that coming up on a reef wall or crest with Lyretails was always special while scuba diving.

 

[carri10]

I will say that coming up on a reef wall or crest with Lyretails was always special while scuba diving.

This I agree with. Really special.
The hobby consolidated view point is that lyretails end up beating each other too much, or have I read it wrong?
I don’t mind a little bit of argie bargie , but I really want to avoid gradually losing fish to intra species aggression.

 

[areefer01]

This I agree with. Really special.
The hobby consolidated view point is that lyretails end up beating each other too much, or have I read it wrong?
I don’t mind a little bit of argie bargie , but I really want to avoid gradually losing fish to intra species aggression.

I tend to agree with numbers gradually winding down to a single male. I even have read a few stories from a QT vendor elsewhere that witnesses them transitioning in their tanks. So fast that they have to move and restart the process.

I attempted 5 Lyretails but lost every single one of them. The dominate male chased the others relentlessly such that they mostly hid and got little food. Not sure if it was due to my aquascape, lack of coral maturity, or they were sick and I didn't catch it. Never really figured it out.

Part of me believes that it is a numbers and reef maturity deal. The more in the tank allows the dominate male to spread out its attention. Similar to a cleaner wrasse. Too few fish it is constantly bothering the fish vs a larger number it spreads the love around. Same here. I also feel that damsels are important. It keeps the males attention as it dive bombs them to have them scurry back into the reef to allow them to get the food first. I see this often when I come upon them on the reefs. It also helps to have a larger fish that is sort of like a predator.

For example I have 11 Lyretail Damsels from Biota. They hug the reef structure and Acropora. The dominate Pink Square will randomly dive bomb them. Not hurting, biting, or killing, but rather a quick dart towards it which said damsels then retreats to the reef. It will pop back out a few seconds later. Dance repeats and then the anthias goes back about its day. Only fish it does this to. Feeding time it is chaos as it is herding them away to let the females get their food first while in between chases sniping its food.

So long and short of it is that I would like to think it is a numbers game. More anthias means it spreads its attention round freeing up the others to do their thing. The challenge is always if one of the others becomes dominate or transitions then a fight, death, usually follow. Balance is it or so I believe. The funny thing is that there are some hobbyist who have them without issue with one or two reporting two males...

TL; DR - I read more posts with the numbers dwindling down to one. I'm sort of on the fence that I think it is numbers and environment with a better chance of success with a mature reef. Your mileage may vary.