successful high alk SPS tanks

turfster26 · May 26, 2013

I do have to agree with most of the recurring statements I FIRMLY believe it is "stability" that works with most any tank. I read in an earlier post that "I run my Alk higher because that is where it is most stable". That is exactly why I run mine that high too. With my AquaVitro Salinity salt, my CalRx and dosing ESV B-Ionic; that is where my Alk and Cal want to be so I simply do not mess with my parameters. If it is at the cost of slower growth and slightly off color sps's...so be it. My parameters have been sooooo stable during the past 1+ years, I hardly test but every few weeks now instead of 2-3 x's/week like I used. It is sooooo scary how stable my parameters are now I just try to KISS with my higher readings.

BTW: someone ask about my lighting earlier. Before January 2nd (when I completely tore down my aquascape) I was running (3) MH Radiums with M80 ballasts with (4) Super Actinic VHO supplementation No I am running an ATI PM 10 x 84w fixture. I went with T5's for tooooo many reasons to list right now. To that end, I do miss my MH setup, but do enjoy running T5's.

HTH and great thread................

Mrfresh · May 26, 2013

MaliciousRob said:
New to the hobby Mrfresh?

Sent Via the R2R Forum APP

No I've been in the hobby for 7 years. I'm new to forums so I'm hearing about all these new things and I've always lived in Cali so that's never been a problem for me...

KoleTang · Jun 9, 2013

I think people missing the point here. Color is NOT all about alk. Most of the people here who are rooting for low alk are talking about Zeovit tanks. The only reason zeovit tanks are low alk is because of burnt tips! Zeovit tanks are NOT colorful because of the alk, they are colorful becuase of the ZEO SUPPLEMENTS. Do you think people would be spending hundreds of dollars on little blue zeo bottles if the corals just magically colored up from the alk level? I'm sure if they could, people would be cranking up the alk in their zeo tanks.

Mrfresh said:
No I've been in the hobby for 7 years. I'm new to forums so I'm hearing about all these new things and I've always lived in Cali so that's never been a problem for me...

I don't think that guy is accurate. How would 0.002 less PPT of salt effect the amount of oxygen in the water? His skimmer's air intake must be clogged. LOL

turfster26 said:
I do have to agree with most of the recurring statements I FIRMLY believe it is "stability" that works with most any tank. I read in an earlier post that "I run my Alk higher because that is where it is most stable". That is exactly why I run mine that high too. With my AquaVitro Salinity salt, my CalRx and dosing ESV B-Ionic; that is where my Alk and Cal want to be so I simply do not mess with my parameters. If it is at the cost of slower growth and slightly off color sps's...so be it. My parameters have been sooooo stable during the past 1+ years, I hardly test but every few weeks now instead of 2-3 x's/week like I used. It is sooooo scary how stable my parameters are now I just try to KISS with my higher readings.

turfster, Why would your higher alk cause less growth? That doesn't much sense.

MaliciousRob · Jun 9, 2013

KoleTang said:
I think people missing the point here. Color is NOT all about alk. Most of the people here who are rooting for low alk are talking about Zeovit tanks. The only reason zeovit tanks are low alk is because of burnt tips! Zeovit tanks are NOT colorful because of the alk, they are colorful becuase of the ZEO SUPPLEMENTS. Do you think people would be spending hundreds of dollars on little blue zeo bottles if the corals just magically colored up from the alk level? I'm sure if they could, people would be cranking up the alk in their zeo tanks.

I don't think that guy is accurate. How would 0.002 less PPT of salt effect the amount of oxygen in the water? His skimmer's air intake must be clogged. LOL

turfster, Why would your higher alk cause less growth? That doesn't much sense.

How could my air intake on my skimmer be clogged if I'm not skimming? I think your missing the point of this forum. Why do people always try to correct each other and cut others down? You must be the "kingpin" of reefing. Thank you for gracing us with your knowledge, koletang the almighty

Sent Via the R2R Forum APP

tj51 · Jun 9, 2013

I've enjoyed reading about the different levels of alk that people use to get successful results; my question is why? I haven't seen anyone state that alk. at ..... is beneficial to SPS coral because of ...... That's what I would hope to see to encourage me to want to change my alk. From my little understanding of the reef chemistry, calcium + alk. = calcium carbonate which is ultimately what strengthens the corals skeletal system. I've always read that there needs to be a balance of calcium and alk. to "produce" calcium carbonate. I know my term are elementary, I apologize for that, chemistry is obviously not a strong point. But I'd love to know the calcium level of the low alk. tanks. If calcium is also low, I can see this working. but if you have a calcium level of 400+ and an alk/dhk of 7, I'd like to know how that works. To me it seems the high calcium would detract from the alk. and it would result in an unsuccessful creation of calcium carbonate. Again, if you run low alk., why? I'm open to change but not just because you do it and it looks good, I'd like to understand why low alk, high nutrients works.

whixley101 · Jun 9, 2013

++1

Sent Via the R2R Forum APP

KoleTang · Jun 9, 2013

MaliciousRob said:
How could my air intake on my skimmer be clogged if I'm not skimming? I think your missing the point of this forum. Why do people always try to correct each other and cut others down? You must be the "kingpin" of reefing. Thank you for gracing us with your knowledge, koletang the almighty

Sent Via the R2R Forum APP

I was making a joke about your aeration problem that your blame on your salinity.

Why do people correct eachother? Because this is a discussion board. People can say whatever they want. Sometimes they can give the wrong info. There is nothing wrong with correcting people in a non-hostile way.

No one is cutting eachother down. This is by far the friendliest forum around. Sometimes discussions can get to the equivalent of "friendly rough housing", but it is rare to get to a full blown argument around here.

Why are you referring us to us as "you people"? You are one of the people, if you did not notice, you have a username here.

How am I a "kingpin"? If I were a "kingpin", I would have "supporter", "excellence", "R2R Guide", etc. below my name. And guess what, the "king pins" around here that have those awards are great people. Calling someone a kingpin on another forum may get you somewhere, but not here.

Why are you so offended? You are the one who went on the offensive with a uncalled-for snide remark to Mrfresh.

I think this is a great thread and I want to see it stay open, so please do not take this any further.

KoleTang · Jun 9, 2013

tj51 said:
I've enjoyed reading about the different levels of alk that people use to get successful results; my question is why? I haven't seen anyone state that alk. at ..... is beneficial to SPS coral because of ...... That's what I would hope to see to encourage me to want to change my alk. From my little understanding of the reef chemistry, calcium + alk. = calcium carbonate which is ultimately what strengthens the corals skeletal system. I've always read that there needs to be a balance of calcium and alk. to "produce" calcium carbonate. I know my term are elementary, I apologize for that, chemistry is obviously not a strong point. But I'd love to know the calcium level of the low alk. tanks. If calcium is also low, I can see this working. but if you have a calcium level of 400+ and an alk/dhk of 7, I'd like to know how that works. To me it seems the high calcium would detract from the alk. and it would result in an unsuccessful creation of calcium carbonate. Again, if you run low alk., why? I'm open to change but not just because you do it and it looks good, I'd like to understand why low alk, high nutrients works.

+1, I want to hear what level of alk grows corals the fastest. I don't want the information to be spoiled by alk in combination with different systems (Blu Coral, Zeo, Zeo/carbon dosing hybrid). I just want to hear about the alk.

Another thing I am confused about. Why are people complaining about RTN and STN at higher alk levels and other people aren't?

This may help you. It shows you how much Ca you need based on your dKH. Calcium/Alkalinity Balance Calculator

Mrfresh · Jun 9, 2013

That link is awesome, I wondered what should my cal be with me starting to run my alk higher and higher.

Thanks again for the link

I was running my alk at 8.5 with cal at 450.
Lets see what happens when I bring my alk up to 11dkh and cal to 339
Like the link said

KoleTang · Jun 9, 2013

Well I brought this up with the local guys. .Marshall posted a very helpful link that made me have a "eureka!" moment. LOL

I thought I would share.

Where do you keep your Alk

Rob&Gab · Jun 9, 2013

jaugermeister said:
Talk is cheap people. Post some pics of your proven method of high alk. Its like someone boasting on how much of an expert they are and dealing with a tank crash at the same time.. haha
I've been learning in this hobby for years and have come to the final conclusion that if my tank and corals look better than yours then I'm not going to follow your methods.
Heavy skimming, weekly water changes of 10%, good lighting and schedule, carbon, gfo and most important water flow.
I never had a major crash nor lost multiple corals employing this technique.

Sorry for the blue cell pic just what I had on my phone...

is that a rock anemone in there if so can you take a close up shot of it. it looks really multi colored in this pic. thanks man. got any tank threads>!?

Big E · Jun 10, 2013

Corals are amazing animals.....they are very adaptable and probably why they have been around thousands of years.

I believe they'll adapt to whatever levels you run and then if you go outside their current norm they suffer. I would focus more on keeping Alk and Calc at even levels than worry about a mythical sweet spot.

stunreefer · Feb 27, 2014

Big E said:
Corals are amazing animals.....they are very adaptable and probably why they have been around *thousands of years.

*millions

ReeferEric · Feb 27, 2014

Subscribed to read later. Great debate!

b_rad_G · Feb 27, 2014

So the difference in high and low all is what? What is high...above 9.5-10? What is low...below 9? We are talking about half a dkh here! Anyone happen to know the accuracy of a hobby grade test kit or what about the deviation of 2 different people using the kit? My point is I could possibly test and show 8.5 when Bob used his test made by a different company he very well could show 9.5.

That said I like to keep mine in the 8.0-8.5 range. Idk why but that's where I keep it. Probably because that's pretty close to new mix io. My corals do not have wonderful color so you can't say low alk gives good color.

I think the high all systems were used years ago to avoid constant dosing. It might not actually be what people think is the reason but I would assume it gave a better cushion for the aquarists thus making the corals "healthier". I don't think high alk is proven to give better color or increase overall health.

b_rad_G · Feb 27, 2014

woops double

trido · Feb 27, 2014

When I started reef keeping 8 years ago the Papone method was one of the rages. High Alk, high calcium, high mg., and heavy feeding along with heavy skimming. I still use this philosophy to this day. Feed until your on the verge of cyano.

I keep my alk between 9-11 and have had it as high as 13 on occasion without problems. My Calcium is usually under 400.

This is my tank from three years ago before I broke it down.

This is my newest set up. Pictures with a far better camera and more photography experience. My corals have always been full of color and grow as fast as the next person's.

Bry · Feb 27, 2014

Mrfresh said:
Maliciousrob why did u post ur living elevation? I've never seen anyone post that information before in regards to a reef tank and there parameters.

Most people don't post their elevation because most people don't live where the elevation has an effect on everything... Once you start to get above 8-9000' the oxygen level affects everything from cooking and how cars run to how you breath when you walk up a hill. It definitely changes everything you do. I lived at 9500 feet for a year.. it takes adjustments in everything.

Bry · Feb 27, 2014

This really is an interesting thread and shows just how adaptable corals are. I agree that stability in parameters is more important than what the parameters are within a certain range.