Swapping all rock on running tank. Questions

[Paston1]

I have a 240G system with 60G sump. I read the forum 24/7 and well finally made a account to ask a question.
120 lbs living sand
20 lbs of live rock in sump
1 white ribbon eel
1 gem, purple, sailfin tang
12 conches
20 hermits
1 bristletooth starfish
40-60 snails various types.
7 cleaners
Feeding:
2 pellets in the am everyday
Nori in afternoon everyday
Eel eod silverside

Can I swap all the rock inside day 1 with the premade aqua or should I make a brute and use atm colony for a week? Add 2 clowns?

Understand ammonia is the issue here but curious if I will have enough bacteria due to sand and sump rock to sustain.

have a lot of coral though despite the small fish habit. Primarily euphyllia

sorry for the rookie question, normally wouldn’t post but couldn’t find the answer prior to making the account.

 

[brandon429]

I have a thread that is a near perfect copy of that tank and job:

 

[brandon429]

Connecting Established Reef To New Tank

EDIT: In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following: 1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels. 2. Take your skimmer...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

You don’t want to move the sand as is, that’s a cycle risk. You’d move clean sand, pre rinsed cloudless sand you do not need its bacteria


merely bringing up the new rocks before stacking in your new tank will effect a skip cycle. He covers lighting re ramps, nutrient boosting where deficient, invasion control and finally shows matured end swap product. That thread is worth $ because it saves money

don’t transfer a single handful of old sand, again you don’t need sandbed bacteria in the job you only need sand grains with zero clouding in the new tank. The cycled live rock will carry your ammonia load, not a problem. One bottle of Fritz alone in the new dry tank could do that without wait anyway, so to take time to bring up rocks in brutes is very conservative approach.

your final goal is to input sand so clean, reaching down to the bottom and dropping a large scoop simply falls like a snowglobe

the rocks will carry the workload, don’t even add cycling bac to the new tank in doubt, specifically the rocks prepped will carry the bioload in the swap tank. Move fish and coral into a perfectly new system with rocks prepped and zero cloud, begin target feeding nicely to mature the new system along and bring out coral growth during this rare ultra clean new setup.

if you did these steps and then still put a bottle of refrigerated turbo start 900/ Fritz it’s just a certain easy skip cycle no testing needed. I hate wasting money on unneeded bottle bac but you know what, that load of corals and fish you have may be over ten grand, we can buy one insurance bottle lol no judge

so prep your rocks anyway, add to totally rinsed sand in new tank using some current water if you want to save.

input a small bottle of Fritz again into the new setup which we know is ready but aren’t harping on an insurance purchase just this once

 

[brandon429]

Regarding sandbed final details:

I’m aware the tendency is to ignore advice on sand rinsing, it sounds ludicrous lol


but consider the thread below as to why a laser clean start beats leaving the current sand in place and then switching out the rocks…it’s capping off old waste from the fish with the new rock stacks, things that age a sandbed and are now upwelled to the top as a detritus layer are stacked on top of

with a new rock stack locked in place this nearly guarantees big invasions soon among your corals when lighting resumes.


for that $ load of coral you want to pre engineer a clean move, anticipating what avoids algae, using what is known to effect a skip cycle and that way is a blast cleaned sandbed, not one speck of waste. Other ways are less work, but they leave critical tank aging details in place vs use the swap as a rare export opportunity. A clean start works best, always

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

fifty pages of reef tank custom transfers.

 

[Ramdude4G]

I’d put the new scape in a brute or similar and some of the rocks from your sump and use water from your tank as in a water change water. Throw in a small flow or something. Maybe even a molly. and possibly a turbo starter. Let that rock cycle fo at least a couple weeks. Otherwise your asking for an Unbalance of bacteria vs bio load. Causing algae disasters.

 

[Paston1]

Connecting Established Reef To New Tank

EDIT: In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following: 1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels. 2. Take your skimmer...

www.reef2reef.com

I liked your thread, only issue/difference. Want to pull all old rock in display and swap with new rock in display. Ideally all in one day. That way any pest that I don’t know about or only come out at night are also removed in one smooth go. I liked the idea of using current water but not sure how I could connect a brute to a tank and keep the water levels ideal from a ATO and sump level.

 

[Paston1]

I’d put the new scape in a brute or similar and some of the rocks from your sump and use water from your tank as in a water change water. Throw in a small flow or something. Maybe even a molly. and possibly a turbo starter. Let that rock cycle fo at least a couple weeks. Otherwise your asking for an Unbalance of bacteria vs bio load. Causing algae disasters.

Would the bio load be that high for 3 fish and a eel?
Considering all the sand is left intact and that much water volume?
I know the bacteria will take a massive hit removing 80-100 lbs of rock but the sump rock has bacteria and hopefully the sand is carrying its weight too.

of course don’t want my fish to die but more concerned for my torches. Have some 1k plus in there lol.

 

[Paston1]

Regarding sandbed final details:

I’m aware the tendency is to ignore advice on sand rinsing, it sounds ludicrous lol


but consider the thread below as to why a laser clean start beats leaving the current sand in place and then switching out the rocks…it’s capping off old waste from the fish with the new rock stacks, things that age a sandbed and are now upwelled to the top as a detritus layer are stacked on top of

with a new rock stack locked in place this nearly guarantees big invasions soon among your corals when lighting resumes.


for that $ load of coral you want to pre engineer a clean move, anticipating what avoids algae, using what is known to effect a skip cycle and that way is a blast cleaned sandbed, not one speck of waste. Other ways are less work, but they leave critical tank aging details in place vs use the swap as a rare export opportunity. A clean start works best, always

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

fifty pages of reef tank custom transfers.

Pull out all old sand only 4 months old and add new sand?

 

[brandon429]

It’s your choice either way, you can see the job being done successfully above, to use a different way maybe ok but doesn’t have a large pattern thread for predictions


there is thorough and then there’s customized but agreed four mos old moved about is better than four years, some tanks run balanced sandbeds anyway. You can see on web forums though if we don’t take account of the 5% beds then we are killing some reefs…pure clean is simply the known safe method default setting. Cleaning can’t harm anyone’s reef when done thoroughly

 

[Ramdude4G]

Would the bio load be that high for 3 fish and a eel?
Considering all the sand is left intact and that much water volume?
I know the bacteria will take a massive hit removing 80-100 lbs of rock but the sump rock has bacteria and hopefully the sand is carrying its weight too.

of course don’t want my fish to die but more concerned for my torches. Have some 1k plus in there lol.

It’s not that there won’t be enough beneficial bacteria. The problem is, is there will now be a lot of new rock with nothing on it. And it will be like cycling that part of the tank all over again until all the new empty space has been claimed by bacteria. So the good and bad bacteria will fight for a hold on the new rock. Potentially leading to algae blooms on the new rock.

 

[Ramdude4G]

Would the bio load be that high for 3 fish and a eel?
Considering all the sand is left intact and that much water volume?
I know the bacteria will take a massive hit removing 80-100 lbs of rock but the sump rock has bacteria and hopefully the sand is carrying its weight too.

of course don’t want my fish to die but more concerned for my torches. Have some 1k plus in there lol.

Remember there is always only enough good bacteria in the tank to handle the bio load in the tank. Otherwise your levels would always be at 0 and you wouldn’t need any other filtration sources. thats why they always say you shouldn’t add too many fish at one time. You will overwhelm the good bacteria that’s in the tank. Well by removing the live rock in your tank and replacing with dead rock you essentially doing just that. Removing a portion of your good bacteria and in essence increasing your bio load on the tank. Cause -effect. Hope this helps. You could always do it and and pour in a bottle of bacteria and hope for the best tho. And may be successful and may not. It’s just a gamble you have to take. And make a decision on what’s best for you. Swap the rock out now and take a chance or mix up some water put in a bin with new rock and a pump and a piece of live rock from your sump and a bottle of starter and feed it. Give it a month or so.

 

[Paston1]

Remember there is always only enough good bacteria in the tank to handle the bio load in the tank. Otherwise your levels would always be at 0 and you wouldn’t need any other filtration sources. thats why they always say you shouldn’t add too many fish at one time. You will overwhelm the good bacteria that’s in the tank. Well by removing the live rock in your tank and replacing with dead rock you essentially doing just that. Removing a portion of your good bacteria and in essence increasing your bio load on the tank. Cause -effect. Hope this helps. You could always do it and and pour in a bottle of bacteria and hope for the best tho. And may be successful and may not. It’s just a gamble you have to take. And make a decision on what’s best for you. Swap the rock out now and take a chance or mix up some water put in a bin with new rock and a pump and a piece of live rock from your sump and a bottle of starter and feed it. Give it a month or so.

I like the new water and rock in brute with colony.
Should I toss a silverside in it for a ammonia source?

 

[Tamberav]

Just curious, what pest are you hoping to remove?

Some pests would probably show up again regardless of rock exchange. For example, aiptasia just takes a single cell which could be in the water, sand, sump, anywhere.

 

[Paston1]

Just curious, what pest are you hoping to remove?

Some pests would probably show up again regardless of rock exchange. For example, aiptasia just takes a single cell which could be in the water, sand, sump, anywhere.

vermitad snails are the one that I hate. Redid my rock once by pulling it all and breaking the shells then adding peppermints and bumblebees…..they came back