Switched to Triton, corals struggling. No idea what to do

[certain_code]

I switched from 3 part dosing to Triton about 2 months ago now. Things looked great at the start but have since gone very poorly and im not sure what I can do. Appreciate any help.

Tank: 80 gallon mixed
Alk: 7.95 took a few weeks to get stable but not running very close to 8 consistently
Nitrate: 10ppm
Phos: 0
Running carbon and aluminum pellets on a reactor.
Skimming is dark and thick.
Triton test when starting Triton were all in point, no metals or anything out of good standing.
Salinity: 1.024

Things odd that I've noticed:
- My Cheato is turning pale white under a proven LED grow light.
- my pH swings high 8.1 to low 6ish in a day (might be probe issue?)

Problems:
All my coral such as frogspawn, acan, and hammer are disconnecting from their skeleton. Also I seem to have Cyano appearing now so doing lights out to help stop that from taking over.

Anyone have thoughts on what the issue could be?

Thanks

 

[d2mini]

I would definitely try a new pH probe.
6-ish is very bad. Stressful on the fish and prevents calcification.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/
You need to figure out asap if its just the probe or something more.

And Aluminum Pellets? As in Aluminum Oxide for p04?
Your p04 is at zero. Unless you are seeing algae, I'd stop use of the media. Just run carbon. You really should have some p04 in there.
Let your chaeto be your filter.

 

[BoneXriffic]

I have limited knowlegw of triton method, but lownph and no phos will make corals unhappy in any method, also salinity could go up to 1.026, but thats minor compared to the rest.

Sorry to jump on your post triton

 

[BetURWrasse]

I see you say Triton test at the begin gin was good, have you done another??

I had kind of the same thing happen when I changed over. Honestly some things are still not back to what they looked like before and its been since Jan 2016. I did have some metal readings but I don't know if that is what caused the decline or not.

I would load the fuge with as many types of macro you can get, don't just rely on cheato.

I like to test everything I can and then take a water sample at the same time to send off. That way I know how far off on average my salifert and red sea tests very from the triton tests.

 

[certain_code]

I would definitely try a new pH probe.
6-ish is very bad. Stressful on the fish and prevents calcification.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/
You need to figure out asap if its just the probe or something more.

And Aluminum Pellets? As in Aluminum Oxide for p04?
Your p04 is at zero. Unless you are seeing algae, I'd stop use of the media. Just run carbon. You really should have some p04 in there.
Let your chaeto be your filter.

Yeah, sorry, was typing on my commute so didn't get specific. I am running Phosguard (not Triton recommended but seems to be same in principle.) in a smaller dosage as I was battling a bit of hair and turf algae. Thanks for the advice, I will take the PhsGuard offline and only run the Carbon for now.

I have limited knowlegw of triton method, but lownph and no phos will make corals unhappy in any method, also salinity could go up to 1.026, but thats minor compared to the rest.

Sorry to jump on your post triton

No worries. I am starting to think its a bad probe reading since the probe is getting older now. Triton usually raises salinity as time goes on so I am letting that raise me back to 1.026 since I am not in a dangerous spot really at this point. Thanks

I see you say Triton test at the begin gin was good, have you done another??

I had kind of the same thing happen when I changed over. Honestly some things are still not back to what they looked like before and its been since Jan 2016. I did have some metal readings but I don't know if that is what caused the decline or not.

I would load the fuge with as many types of macro you can get, don't just rely on cheato.

I like to test everything I can and then take a water sample at the same time to send off. That way I know how far off on average my salifert and red sea tests very from the triton tests.

Triton was solid on anything that was not being testing by a Salifert, Hanna, or Red Sea test at home. Have not done one since just due to everything being out of wack and a bit unstable while getting the dosage right.

Starting with Cheato since I could never keep it in my tank and didnt want to throw away cash on some other types until I could see it working well. I know it is part of Triton so it is certainly planned once things get back to normal.

I do the same and did so when I first sent the Triton test off. Trying to get things back to normal now and will do the same again to make sure things Im not testing for here are still in line.

 

[Brett H whitt]

Following your thread, I am considering the Triton method. just sent my first test off last week.

 

[certain_code]

Following your thread, I am considering the Triton method. just sent my first test off last week.

Thanks, I love the concept of it since I am tight on space and water changes prove to be logistically difficult. Figuring this problem out will hopefully be easy enough and get everything back on track. I already am down at least 4 or 5 corals as everything seems to be waiting to jump out of their skeleton. Fingers crossed it's just the PO4 being too low.

 

[Brett H whitt]

Did some research on cheato turning white and most say it’s dying off from poor lighting, low nutrients or low iron. You have
10ppm of nitrates so I find it hard to believe that you have low nutrients. I would suggest testing you PH a few times per day to see
If it is actually dropping that much. If you have a spare light, it would not hurt to try it out. Your cheato should be growing like mad with the 10 ppm
of nitrates. My cheato grows very well in my system and my nitrate levels are 0.25.

 

[CherryCorals]

Do not use aluminum based PO4 remover!

 

[certain_code]

Did some research on cheato turning white and most say it’s dying off from poor lighting, low nutrients or low iron. You have
10ppm of nitrates so I find it hard to believe that you have low nutrients. I would suggest testing you PH a few times per day to see
If it is actually dropping that much. If you have a spare light, it would not hurt to try it out. Your cheato should be growing like mad with the 10 ppm
of nitrates. My cheato grows very well in my system and my nitrate levels are 0.25.

Yup, read pretty much the same things. Only thing I could think of is that my PO4 being so low is killing it off. I am using a Chinese LED grow light that would be the issue but others on R2R are using the same light with success. PH is monitored via controller probe but I think it's starting to go bad. don't have a test kit outside of that to validate so going to pick up a new one.

Do not use aluminum based PO4 remover!

I have heard this but Triton calls for it so I switched over from GFO. I know people say bad things but I've obviously seen successful Triton tanks using it. Regardless, with my PO4 at 0 I took it offline anyways.

 

[Brett H whitt]

I used to run my PO4 at zero and never had any issues with any algae die off.

 

[certain_code]

I used to run my PO4 at zero and never had any issues with any algae die off.

Fair enough. Really more worried about the coral die off than anything though. Thanks

 

[CherryCorals]

Fair enough. Really more worried about the coral die off than anything though. Thanks

Curious to see what your Al tests at, do you have your Triton test handy?

 

[certain_code]

Curious to see what your Al tests at, do you have your Triton test handy?

Just have the initial Triton test from 6/16.

Aluminum tested at 6.92 at that point but I hadn't been running aluminum based remover.

Is there a known point in which it becomes dangerous?

 

[mcarroll]

Nitrate: 10ppm
Phos: 0

Nitrate
Seems odd that you have so much nitrate but zero PO4 yet you don't seem to be doing much for PO4 export. Just a small amount of (e.g.) Phosgaurd? How much and changed how often? (Are you following the package instructions?) How much live rock per gallon do you have? How thick a sand bed?

Phosphate
Even with lots of PO4-remover, most tanks go the other way: high PO4 with zero NO3 and then get Cyano or dino's, etc. Almost wonder if PO4-limitation is causing problems with your nitrogen cycle, but not sure how you got into the situation of zero PO4 in the first place. You should be able to feed your way out of this.

As you already said, bump the phosphate remover. Nothing can grow without some PO4 in the water to use as building blocks for cells. Shoot for a range from NSW-levels up to slightly higher.

Alkalinity
Also, what was the story behind stabilizing your alkalinity? Alk swings are rough on corals too and the effects can be pretty delayed.

Last, all stresses are cumulative...so all of these things are figuring in to some degree.

 

[Robthorn]

Do not use aluminum based PO4 remover!

Thank you. I wondered how long I had to read this thread before I saw this.

Low po4 is a good thing. No matter what some say or think.

 

[mcarroll]

low ≠ zero

 

[certain_code]

Nitrate
Seems odd that you have so much nitrate but zero PO4 yet you don't seem to be doing much for PO4 export. Just a small amount of (e.g.) Phosgaurd? How much and changed how often? (Are you following the package instructions?) How much live rock per gallon do you have? How thick a sand bed?

Phosphate
Even with lots of PO4-remover, most tanks go the other way: high PO4 with zero NO3 and then get Cyano or dino's, etc. Almost wonder if PO4-limitation is causing problems with your nitrogen cycle, but not sure how you got into the situation of zero PO4 in the first place. You should be able to feed your way out of this.

As you already said, bump the phosphate remover. Nothing can grow without some PO4 in the water to use as building blocks for cells. Shoot for a range from NSW-levels up to slightly higher.

Alkalinity
Also, what was the story behind stabilizing your alkalinity? Alk swings are rough on corals too and the effects can be pretty delayed.

Last, all stresses are cumulative...so all of these things are figuring in to some degree.

I pulled the PhosGuard a few days ago. Hopefully a step in the right direction.

Sand bed is about an inch or two all around. Recently removed rock in the battle against Wire algae and to make improvements with flow, was running around 50lbs but now closer to 30lbs of long running live rock.

I have only been running PhosGuard as per the Triton manual. Both the bottle and the Triton manual call for the same amounts so I halved that at first, then did a full amount about a month later. Don't remember exactly off top of my head but have it logged somewhere.

I honestly never had a lot of PO4 issues or measurements even close to NSW. I try not to over feed and just run my skimmer so it puts out thick and dark skimmate. I will start feeding more to get the numbers higher within safe amounts over time.

For Alk I was running 3 part and had Alk around 11DKH as recommended by Red Sea. I decided to go Triton to simplify my setup so started to let Alk drop to around 9 and then started the baseline dosing amount for Triton. Over the course of two weeks I tried to narrow in the dosing but it dropped to around 7DKH before slowly getting back up to a stable 8.

Thank you. I wondered how long I had to read this thread before I saw this.

Low po4 is a good thing. No matter what some say or think.

Looks like the consensus is some is needed but low is good still. Thanks

 

[Robthorn]

Yep some, but still very low is good. Even though we aren't getting a reading when levels are very low we still have phosphates in the aquarium. As long as we are feeding at least. It is consumed as it is released or produced.
Some people have amazing tanks with what I consider crazy po4 readings. So I don't say never or you have to because everyone and every tank is different.

 

[joefishUC]

I would only start using the gfo again once the po4 creeps up to around .1 Then use a small amount and adjust the feeding accordingly to balance the level and keep it stable. Somewhere between .02-.08 seems to be the sweet spot most reefers report. Try to get the alkalinity to stabilize and give the tank time to rebound. Even if you balance things out it may take weeks for the coral to respond to the favorable water chemistry. Hang in there!