T12 vs T5 supplementation hear me out on this one...

[dantimdad]

OK, so without getting mean, arrogant or just plain bratty, explain why, (in quantifiable terms not subjective) T5 is better vs T12 for supplemental lighting when used with leds.

Keep in mind the following:

I have the stuff to DIY a 4 bulb retrofit for either size bulbs.
I already have access to two dozen 24" t12 bulbs that are unopened.
I have access to almost a dozen 24" t5 bulbs that are unopened.
We are going to use 24" bulbs as a comparison because the wattage is nearly identical and it's the size that will fit my cube.
Space is not an issue where this is concerned
Heat is not an issue where this setup is concerned
The bulbs I have are close in spectrum (actinic and 6500K) They actually look close to each other.
All we are doing here is eliminating some shadowing

One other thing, when using t12 you can actually overdrive them with electronic ballasts and get more power but shortening life a bit. So we may explore that avenue

It matters not, that it's old school technology. I ran t8s and t12s for years with nice results as a primary source of light on many tanks. So saying because it's newer or older isn't a good argument.

All though this is for fun mainly, I may just implement some of the stuff discussed here.

I will be open minded to all suggestions/opinions but data rules the day here.

 

[Bpb]

Are the t12 VHO or normal output. I suppose one would really just need to compare par and spectrum at the end of the day. Why not use both

 

[Chef Tommy]

I remember looking into this years ago when I had a small farm. We used T5 only because the heat was a little less and also created an energy savings. The savings were small per light but over the year it added a bit of savings because we had 12 fixtures with 12 bulbs each. We used the lighting for seedlings.

 

[dantimdad]

They are NO t12 20 watt.

 

[Bpb]

T5ho bulb will likely offer better par and spectrum. They get my vote.

 

[dantimdad]

Anyone ever measure T12 PAR?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

If you have them, there is absolutely no reason not to use them.

They do have a lower output. So what? Makes it a low to med light tank.

 

[dantimdad]

If you have them, there is absolutely no reason not to use them.

They do have a lower output. So what? Makes it a low to med light tank.

I think part of me is curious as to why we trend away from things. Is newer always better? Of course not. Look at the people going back to MH. Heck, I might even give it another go. I have the equipment.

The other part of me just likes to stir up stuff. Make folks think.

Lastly, I have both types available. And I am indecisive when it comes to this phase of my build.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I think part of me is curious as to why we trend away from things. Is newer always better? Of course not. Look at the people going back to MH. Heck, I might even give it another go. I have the equipment.

The other part of me just likes to stir up stuff. Make folks think.

Lastly, I have both types available. And I am indecisive when it comes to this phase of my build.

T5 is plain and simple better tech.

Myself , I like to try things cuz I can.

 

[dantimdad]

I once read an article that said the only thing that made T5 better is the reflectors. Wish I could find it now. It made sense and the time because the argument was PC bulbs are bent T5s basically. But, since they are wider from bending, the reflectors don't work as well.

Whatcha think @saltyfilmfolks ?

 

[dantimdad]

Hey @Dana Riddle do you have some input on the T5/PC aspect of this conversation?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I once read an article that said the only thing that made T5 better is the reflectors. Wish I could find it now. It made sense and the time because the argument was PC bulbs are bent T5s basically. But, since they are wider from bending, the reflectors don't work as well.

Whatcha think @saltyfilmfolks ?

Trust me a bit. I use t12- cf t5 in other applications. It’s my job to wear a meter. It’s output and wattage to lumen efficiency.

 

[dantimdad]

???

You mean CF is more efficient or T5 or both?

I wish I had a PAR meter instead of having to borrow one.


I did find these links:

https://www.bulbs.com/product/F20T12-D-ALTO

http://www.naturallighting.com/pdf_files/aquarium_lighting_t5bulbs.pdf

So, the 24" (nominal size in both) is 1075 lumens vs. 1850 in daylight.

Very interesting. I didn't think it was going to be that big of a difference.

Oddly enough, I can't copy the link for the CFL 24 watt which happens to be 1800 lumens.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Hey @Dana Riddle do you have some input on the T5/PC aspect of this conversation?

I unpacked the binder with all the light measurements (for old school T12 and PC lamps) just yesterday. but I'm getting last minute preparations made for two presentations I'll make at the Pet Festival in Italy. Another hang up, Advanced Aquarist online magazine was recently sold to Reefs.com and the AA site is down, where my only copy of T5 tests I did resides. I know, excuses, excuses. Let me write myself a note to look at this when I get back.

 

[dantimdad]

I unpacked the binder with all the light measurements (for old school T12 and PC lamps) just yesterday. but I'm getting last minute preparations made for two presentations I'll make at the Pet Festival in Italy. Another hang up, Advanced Aquarist online magazine was recently sold to Reefs.com and the AA site is down, where my only copy of T5 tests I did resides. I know, excuses, excuses. Let me write myself a note to look at this when I get back.

As usual, you are the man!

 

[Dana Riddle]

As usual, you are the man!

Remind me when I get back (Oct. 22.) Things are just too crazy right now. But it sounds like an interesting project to compare the lamps for PAR, PUR, spectrum.

 

[dantimdad]

Remind me when I get back (Oct. 22.) Things are just too crazy right now. But it sounds like an interesting project to compare the lamps for PAR, PUR, spectrum.

Just set myself a reminder.

Thanks!

 

[oreo54]

Just throwing this out there:
Power compact/compact florescent have, generally speaking poorer Lumens/watt ratio than current light types.
T12's aren't far behind and some of this depends on the phosphor type.. T5/8's use newer more efficient RGB phosphors than the "old" t12's.
What "new" t12's use is ?????
bit on phosphors..

Basic Facts:

700 & 800 series lamps utilize a single and double coat phosphor system. Series lamps have an increased CRI due to the use of tri-phosphors (rare earth phosphors). Tri-phosphors also increase the lumens/watt output of the lamp. These series lamps offer superior quality of lighting, increased energy efficiencies and extend longer life.

700 & 800 series lamps are available in the following 5 colors in most sizes:

3000K comparable to Warm White
3500K comparable to White
4100K comparable to Cool White
5000K comparable to Chroma 50
6500K comparable to Daylight
700 series lamps range from 70-75 CRI
800 series lamps range from 80-85 CRI

t8's are "the most" efficient of all the "common" fluorescent types, even beating t5's
t5's advantage is just size vs coverage.. Easier to pack 8 t5's in than t12's .. pure physics...
Or you can put 3 t5's in the same space as 2 t12's ect..

you can "overdrive" t5NO's as well w/ t5HO ballasts..

nothing wrong w/ t12's though suspect getting quality ones is limited..Just capitalism..or at "reasonable" photons/$ pricing..Economies of scale..

light "type" matters little really...

 

[dantimdad]

@Dana Riddle

Just a friendly reminder like you asked.

 

[IgnatiusRath]

Bump, following because of a current project on my buddies 1,000 g. Adding t12 along with his t5 and halides. Interested in data on the differences.