T5/LED combo question

[CindyKz]

I have an older ATI Powermodule that I keep 4 ATI Blue+ bulbs in, which run at 100% power for 10 hours, plus LEDs slowly ramp to 35% max and remain there for (I think) about 3 hours before they start a gradual ramp back down. The LEDs run for a total of 8 hours. I use primarily the blue and royal blue spectrums, with just a little of the white and red during the times that I'm home to actually view the tank (after work, mainly).

This is over a 75 gal mixed tank, standard 4 ft size.

I'd like to start bringing the T5's down a little and increasing the use of the LEDs. Any suggestions on the easiest way to do it (without killing stuff) ? I am assuming that the percent of T5 doesn't directly compare to the percent of LEDs - ie I can't just turn the intensity of LEDs up to match the decrease in T5s.

TIA,

Cindy

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Honestly , without a par or lux meter , I’d be a bit stumped there.
You need a way to estimate the par your adding and subtracting.

If you increase the time and intensity of the led and reduce the time of the t5 you should be fine.
This is assuming the led have enough intensity to do so.

 

[CindyKz]

You need a way to estimate the par your adding and subtracting.

Thanks @saltyfilmfolks, once again you managed to kick my brain into gear.

I have a PAR meter on loan for a week or so. I'll spend an afternoon this weekend figuring out what levels I need to raise the LEDs to as I lower the T5s gradually over a few weeks to maintain approximate PAR at few key points in my tank. Something like this:

Week 1: Lower T5s to 95% / Raise LEDs to x% (will figure out X this weekend)
Week 2: Lower T5s to 90%/Raise LEDs to Y% (which I will also figure out through experimentation with the PAR meter this weekend)..


I'll keep going like this until my T5s are down around 80%.

Make sense? See any issues with this plan?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

You. I think you got it.
I wouldn’t dim the t5, just shorten the time. (That’s my personal fluro preference).


And I’d consider this too.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LSFR0F...t=&hvlocphy=9061183&hvtargid=pla-505585159192

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LSFR0F...t=&hvlocphy=9061183&hvtargid=pla-505585159192

Put it next to the par meter at the surface of the water. Look for the peaks and write them down.

Then you’ll be able to make your own par conversion numbers and adjustments easier later, When the par meter is returned.

I’d do the Led and t5 separately, then together.

The led conversion should come in at about 60 (6000 lux every 100 par) ,
And the t5 about 50 (5000 lux every 100 par.)
And likely about 55 together.

 

[CindyKz]

You. I think you got it.
I wouldn’t dim the t5, just shorten the time. (That’s my personal fluro preference).

This makes sense but defeats the purpose of changing it, which is to take advantage of the pretty LED shimmer Right now, with the T5s at 100% the LEDs are overpowered a bit I think. The tank is getting enough light total at current settings - if I just crank up the LEDs so I can see them I'm afraid I'd fry my LPS. One option, though, would be to run the T5s on 100% during the time of day that I'm typically not home and program them to ramp down a bit (with a corresponding rise in the LED intensity) during our usual viewing hours. I kind of like that idea, because I get good growth from the T5s I think (when I manage to keep my alk stable but that's another whole discussion LOL).

And I’d consider this too.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LSFR0F...t=&hvlocphy=9061183&hvtargid=pla-505585159192

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LSFR0F...t=&hvlocphy=9061183&hvtargid=pla-505585159192

Put it next to the par meter at the surface of the water. Look for the peaks and write them down.

Then you’ll be able to make your own par conversion numbers and adjustments easier later, When the par meter is returned.

I’d do the Led and t5 separately, then together.

The led conversion should come in at about 60 (6000 lux every 100 par) ,
And the t5 about 50 (5000 lux every 100 par.)
And likely about 55 together.

I'm a little confused about this maybe, tell me if I"m on the right track? So I'd hold the LUX meter at the surface, PAR meter in the water at depth, and record both readings. Then figure out the conversion factor - so say, if I know the LUX meter reads 100 at the top middle of the tank and the PAR meter reads 500 at the bottom middle on a given light setting (whether LED or T5), I can assume that if the LUX meter in the same position ( on a different light setting) is reading 50, the corresponding PAR at the bottom middle is 250? (100/500 = 50/250)

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Wow, the t5 are blowing out the leds ? Impressive.
Ati and I dondis agree, they promised to talk to me about over a beer one day.
So go with your gut and what ya like.


When you get the par meter, scan the surface of the water slowly , you’ll see dips and peaks , not many with your set up(glad ya didn’t go kessil lol).
Then do the same at bottom of the tank (do the rest for reference ) but top and bottom are most important.

So let’s say you get 500 par average on the waters surface and 100 par average in the sand. Peak photoperiod only btw.

That’ll be about 30,000 lux.
Now let’s say after the par meter is gone , you want to increase or decrease the par, you just increase it in 2,500 lux(50 par) to 32,500 lux. And on the sand you will now have 150 par.
Make sense ?

And the lux meter never gets wet....

The hot spot on my Light is about 6-8 inches wide , so I just put the two meters together on the acrylic lid.

As far as photo period and ramping , you can run longer with lowr par and shorter with higher.
So.. I set a peak lighting time (6-8 hours ), and I like a long day to see the corals (ok stupid long) . So before I lower intensity , I’ll shorten the peak instead. Right now I’m at 6hrs fwiw. Many would just run 500 par for ten hours. If it’s still too much (shrooms scream acros green etc) then I’d lower the intensity.

I don’t care much at all what the intensity is between the ramps I know it’s betwen 0 and 500. Lol

And not suggesting you go with 500 par btw. All my lps hated it.

 

[justingraham]

Something doesn’t make sense here a four bulb fixture maxes out at like 205 par (DLI of 7 ish right salty?) in 12 inches of water 8 inches above the tank so like 20 inches away and then at 18 inches ur at like 180 par any led should be able to shimmer the water I would think.

What kind of leds do you have?

I would (and I am wrong a lot of the time) keep the t5 duration the same but change the time of day so when you get home you get to see the shimmer you want. Unless your worried about the money then have fun messing around

U may be asking how do I know this well it’s what I did today With this

And my apex par meter over a 90

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Something doesn’t make sense here a four bulb fixture maxes out at like 205 par (DLI of 7 ish right salty?) in 12 inches of water 8 inches above the tank so like 20 inches away and then at 18 inches ur at like 180 par any led should be able to shimmer the water I would think.

What kind of leds do you have?

I would (and I am wrong a lot of the time) keep the t5 duration the same but change the time of day so when you get home you get to see the shimmer you want. Unless your worried about the money then have fun messing around

U may be asking how do I know this well it’s what I did today With this

And my apex par meter over a 90

Hey Bud!
Nice toy!

I’m seeing t5 in the 150-200 par per tube at 12 in air or (water for that matter ) lol. You tell me.

So she should have two fields in either side of the tank at about 300+ par at the surface , in the middle with the Led it’ll lay down another field or pool of light I think should max out at 4-500 par???
At the surface that is.

I’d kinda prob want 80- 100 on the sand for a mixed reef I think. I haven’t Had a lot of success with those. I’m a blaster. 200 on the sand.

Leds are brighter per par , so I agree. The shimmer should work ok. It’ll actually be pretty cool as the shimmer will fade a bit as the t5 come up , then the shimmer will appear to ramp up as the t5 go down. That and the color change over the course of the day , that tank Light is gonna look amazing.
And grow coral.

 

[CindyKz]

Something doesn’t make sense here a four bulb fixture maxes out at like 205 par (DLI of 7 ish right salty?) in 12 inches of water 8 inches above the tank so like 20 inches away and then at 18 inches ur at like 180 par any led should be able to shimmer the water I would think.

What kind of leds do you have?

It's an ATI Powermodule, which is basically a 4 bulb dimmable sunpower with LEDs added. The T5s and LEDs are programmed independently. With the T5s at 100% and the LEDs at 35% I get 260-310 PAR directly under the LEDs 5-7 inches below the surface, 130-150 PAR on the sand in the corners, and close to 200 on the sand in the center. That's much higher on the sand than I'd like and probably why I can't make an acan happy to save my life LOL.

I've never done PAR readings with the LEDS off so I can't speak to what i would get with just the 4 T5 bulbs alone - never had reason to.

I think the LEDs penetrate much less than the T5s do, because I can turn the LEDs up to 45% and I only see a couple points change in PAR on the sand with more drastic increases higher up. Another great reason to decrease my T5s a bit!

So she should have two fields in either side of the tank at about 300+ par at the surface , in the middle with the Led it’ll lay down another field or pool of light I think should max out at 4-500 par???
At the surface that is.

I never measured on the surface, I measured at a few key coral locations. But this seems about right, probably a little higher than I'm getting.

Leds are brighter per par , so I agree. The shimmer should work ok. It’ll actually be pretty cool as the shimmer will fade a bit as the t5 come up , then the shimmer will appear to ramp up as the t5 go down. That and the color change over the course of the day , that tank Light is gonna look amazing.
And grow coral.

It is actually a pretty cool light, it will be even better once I figure out how to set it right. It CRANKS out light....I've never turned both the LEDs and T5s up to 100%. I'm a little afraid.