Tailoring my water quality for zoas

Fragzilla · Sep 18, 2016

Hi,

I'm just looking for for a little advise.

one of my tanks is suffering from these levels, it's a Zoa only tank.

Nitrate - zero
Phosphate - 0.08 - 0.16

filtration is -

live rock
siporax
chaeto
skimmer.

im sure if I remove either chaeto or turn the skimmer off that nitrates will be available and either remaining export method would bring the phos down also. I just can't decide which route to take. I guess removing siporax would also achieve this but I'm hesitant to remove any bio filtration.

I don't want to add GfO for risk of going to low and I know zoas don't really like it super low anyway or GfO in general.

ive seen zoas grow in macro algae only tanks that look great, I ve also seen them in skimmer only tanks and they also look really healthy and happy.

My my zoas look a bit washed out, not much growth and I'm getting some hard cyano type algae / bacteria on the base of the polyps which isn't very easy to remove, needs dipping in oxydiser and scrubbing.

so I know the pros and cons of the chaeto or skimmer. If I turn the skimmer off I'll have to sacrifice redox and possible exposure to allopathic compounds. If I remove the chaeto I will risk a night time PH shift and will also lose any amino etc that the algae produces (I may even lose some allopathy but apparently chaeto doesn't do that although I'm not convinced as it is an algae and IMO they can all produce toxins to keep their patch of land free of othe algae species)

im not sure what to do. I'm not particularly keen to keep nitrates at zero as I've had experienced what can go wrong in a sand bed when nitrates are zero and other stuff is decomposing in there.

Can anyone offer any advise please?

ChiCity · Sep 18, 2016

I'd add a small foam sponge, wait a week or 2 and then remove siporax...
Also, you need to get your nitrates up to around 5.
Znp's hate 0 tanks, those gals like it a lil dirty

Fragzilla · Sep 18, 2016

Hi mate.

To be honest I was blaming it on the chaeto doing more removal as I heard it takes 6 months for siporax to remove nitrates and fix into gas. But the chaeto isn't looking as healthy now. I've always had really low nitrates and I found when I had them the heads would go small on all the palys.

But now I have this Cyanobacteria or diatom or other bacteria / fungus on the base of some zoas I think it's caused by either too much phosphate, too little nitrate or just an imbalance in the system, high phosphate with zero nitrate like I have. I know that's obvious but I can't convince myself of what I should do to help the already fragile system.

I was considering chemiclean (although I'm still not sure it's cyano on the polyps as it seems to be on the side of the frags / colonies that are getting the most flow).

So my dilemma is that Ive always had low nutrient systems, mixed corals. Now I'm dealing with my Zoa only tank I'm not confident in doing anything that provides more wate, especially now that I have this hard to remove algae on the polyps and slimy looking algae on some glass panes. But part of me does suspect it is a cyano type bacteria and is only there because my nitrates are low and I guess would be even lower at the Zoa base where the Zoa is taking up any nitrate it can and in doing so reducing nitrates in that area further, causing cyano to take hold as I've seen cyano go away by dosing nitrate. I'm not sure if it was the addition of nitrate that directly prohibited the cyano or if it merely added the needed element to allow more phosphate reduction by bacteria or algae.

ahiggins · Sep 23, 2016

Everyones tank/parameters are always different and their success stories differ.

I used to run my tanks as low nutrient but recently changed that to 5-10 nitrate/0 phos.
at 20k lighting I get slow growth but they look stunning.
at 14k they grow like weeds!

As far as cyano issues go-I also get growth on heads every so often in my smaller tank. I just wipe it off with my finger. Ever since i turned the intensity of the lights down in my other tank, I have had zero cyano.

Fragzilla · Sep 23, 2016

ahiggins said:
Everyones tank/parameters are always different and their success stories differ.

I used to run my tanks as low nutrient but recently changed that to 5-10 nitrate/0 phos.
at 20k lighting I get slow growth but they look stunning.
at 14k they grow like weeds!

As far as cyano issues go-I also get growth on heads every so often in my smaller tank. I just wipe it off with my finger. Ever since i turned the intensity of the lights down in my other tank, I have had zero cyano.

Hi mate, what lights are you using? And I assume your running GFO heavy to get those numbers?

I think what I have is some kind of diatom species growing between the polyps.

I've just done a chemiclean treatment and nothing's shifted yet so I'm thinking it isn't a cyano now.

It's growing between the polyps and especially in higher flow areas.

I had something similar in my bigger tank and that went after chemiclean and running phosphate remover. I now think it was the phos remover that helped as I suspect it's diatoms feeding on high silicates.

Anyway, my chaeto's died so that's now out and my nitrates are going up slightly (0.75). I'm running GFO now also to battle this algae.

I think the algae died because my siporax was just dumped In the second chamber of my sump and I think it went a bit anoxic and started to strip the nitrates out, plus it probably had a lot of organic crap in with it. It's in mesh bags now in higher flow so hopefully it won't reduce nitrates as much as it was.

that Reef Guy · Sep 23, 2016

I keep 7 Tanks.

Most are all Zoanthid or Mostly Zoanthid.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...nthids-happy-healthy-and-growing-fast.250791/

Click on the Link Above for My Thread on Keeping Zoanthids.

I have lots of Tips in that Thread.

Fragzilla · Sep 23, 2016

that Reef Guy said:
I keep 7 Tanks.

Most are all Zoanthid or Mostly Zoanthid.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...nthids-happy-healthy-and-growing-fast.250791/

Click on the Link Above for My Thread on Keeping Zoanthids.

I have lots of Tips in that Thread.

Thanks, I've read that before I think.

I'm going to let nitrates rise a bit, I don't want to go much over 2 as I'm sure my palys heads shrink with NO3 in the tank.

I'm still going to reduce phos with the media, I have too really as I have what I think is diatoms and it's been really bad for quite a while.

What I will do is add more fish, I've added 3 more chromis yesterday anyway. I'm aiming for a high nutrient heavy fed tank with low waste parameters. Basically I want lots of fish poo but minimal mineralised waste.

I know what you mean about low nutrients making them Suceptible to other stressed. I had some vermatid snails growing in one frag but the zoas were fine for months, I went away for 3 days and when I got back the ones next to the vermatids were small and looked like they'd been stung by a nem. They didn't pull through and melted away in the end. I put this directly down to lack of organics in the water.

that Reef Guy · Sep 24, 2016

Fragzilla said:
Thanks, I've read that before I think.

I'm going to let nitrates rise a bit, I don't want to go much over 2 as I'm sure my palys heads shrink with NO3 in the tank.

I'm still going to reduce phos with the media, I have too really as I have what I think is diatoms and it's been really bad for quite a while.

What I will do is add more fish, I've added 3 more chromis yesterday anyway. I'm aiming for a high nutrient heavy fed tank with low waste parameters. Basically I want lots of fish poo but minimal mineralised waste.

I know what you mean about low nutrients making them Suceptible to other stressed. I had some vermatid snails growing in one frag but the zoas were fine for months, I went away for 3 days and when I got back the ones next to the vermatids were small and looked like they'd been stung by a nem. They didn't pull through and melted away in the end. I put this directly down to lack of organics in the water.

Your Welcome

I try keep my Nitrates at 20 and recieve lots of compliments at all the Frag Swaps that I go to on how big my Polyps are (Even from other Vendors) so I would not be concerned with having Nitrates at 2 and getting Small Polyps. Remember Zoanthids like Dirty Water.

I read somewhere that World Wide Corals (WWC) keeps their Nitrates around 40 and they have Amazing Corals.

Phosphate Remover, Carbon, Pellets, etc. take out bad stuff but they take out the good stuff too.

I stopped using Carbon, GFO, and Protein Skimmers and my Corals have never been better and grown so fast.

All that Filtration you have going on is probably why you are having issues.

Fragzilla · Sep 24, 2016

that Reef Guy said:
Your Welcome

I try keep my Nitrates at 20 and recieve lots of compliments at all the Frag Swaps that I go to on how big my Polyps are (Even from other Vendors) so I would not be concerned with having Nitrates at 2 and getting Small Polyps. Remember Zoanthids like Dirty Water.

I read somewhere that World Wide Corals (WWC) keeps their Nitrates around 40 and they have Amazing Corals.

Phosphate Remover, Carbon, Pellets, etc. take out bad stuff but they take out the good stuff too.

I stopped using Carbon, GFO, and Protein Skimmers and my Corals have never been better and grown so fast.

All that Filtration you have going on is probably why you are having issues.

I do think I will eventually take out or stop using the skimmer.

This is the crap I have on my zoas. As said I'm pretty sure it's diatoms so I think I have to use the phosphate remover although I would rather not

Fragzilla · Sep 24, 2016

It's growing in high flow areas and chemiclean has done nothing at all

Fragzilla · Sep 24, 2016

Another

ruha456 · Sep 24, 2016

Great info guys thanks.

Fragzilla · Sep 24, 2016

Gravel bed looks like utter crap also

ahiggins · Sep 24, 2016

Fragzilla said:
Hi mate, what lights are you using? And I assume your running GFO heavy to get those numbers?

I think what I have is some kind of diatom species growing between the polyps.

I've just done a chemiclean treatment and nothing's shifted yet so I'm thinking it isn't a cyano now.

It's growing between the polyps and especially in higher flow areas.

I had something similar in my bigger tank and that went after chemiclean and running phosphate remover. I now think it was the phos remover that helped as I suspect it's diatoms feeding on high silicates.

Anyway, my chaeto's died so that's now out and my nitrates are going up slightly (0.75). I'm running GFO now also to battle this algae.

I think the algae died because my siporax was just dumped In the second chamber of my sump and I think it went a bit anoxic and started to strip the nitrates out, plus it probably had a lot of organic crap in with it. It's in mesh bags now in higher flow so hopefully it won't reduce nitrates as much as it was.

Hey there

I run an ai prime hd on my 25 gallon. Runs 14k for 6-7 hrs and then 20k for 4-when I'm actually home to see the pretty colors

I run a nano skimmer and a small bag of chemi pure. I don't run any special stuff.

My 10 gallon has a generic 14k white/blue light (that I need to get a dimmer for) and has outstanding growth on polyps. I just started a chemiclean treatment this afternoon because my polyps were getting covered with cyano. This one only uses foam block and a small chemi pure in it.

ahiggins · Sep 24, 2016

Fragzilla said:
It's growing in high flow areas and chemiclean has done nothing at all

Growing in high flow areas makes no sense for cyano. It blows off so easily....

Fragzilla · Sep 24, 2016

ahiggins said:
Growing in high flow areas makes no sense for cyano. It blows off so easily....

Yeah that's why I'm now thinking its a diatom species.

How are you getting zero po4 and high NO3 without any other filtration, ie GFO?

ahiggins · Sep 24, 2016

Honestly, I have no idea lol but it's always below 0.01 when I get it tested. I'm taking in water again tomorrow (I don't have a phos test) I'll let you know if it's changed.
I thought that was normal....
I use reef frenzy frozen. The nano pack. I feed a lot too.