Tank Reboot due to algae

[m.kristoff]

You are getting low nutrient readings because of the algae growth in the tank. The nutrients are fueling the algae growth.

Rebooting the tank for an algae issue isn't necessary. Ultimately, it comes down to finding and eliminating the source of the nutrients.

If your dry rock was not cured before placing it in the tank, the organics in the rock will cause a huge algae bloom. But if the rock is already placed, you might as well ride it out. Eventually, it will clear up.

Yes I understand the process.

I believe the rock it is leaching PO4 which is causing the growth. I have taken all logical step to abate it. it is not clearing

The Rock was bleached for 5 days before use to kill off any organics. Rack was cycle in tank without issue over a year ago

 

[Dom]

Yes I understand the process.

I believe the rock it is leaching PO4 which is causing the growth. I have taken all logical step to abate it. it is not clearing

The Rock was bleached for 5 days before use to kill off any organics. Rack was cycle in tank without issue over a year ago

Well, I am satisfied you've taken the correct steps to cure the dry rock.

Your tank looks like an All-In-One. If so, what do you have in the "sump" area?

 

[All_talk]

Knowledge is power...



Reef Beef... https://www.youtube.com/@ReefBeefPodcast

 

[BriansBrain]

Some tanks are just a problem child unfortunately. I’ve set up tanks with combinations of live rock, dry rock with sand, and bare bottom with success and failure. Some take off with no issue at all and sometimes it’s the most frustrating indescribable experience lol

If you have an algae problem you have a nutrient problem, a lack of herbivores, you’re feeding too much, lastly you may be leaving phosphate but I’d address the first problems.

My suggestion: keeping running the turf scrubber, feed lightly once a day or every other day, get tuxedo and/or pincushion urchins, turbo snails, a tang if your tank is big enough.

Elbow grease most importantly. You’re going to need to manually remove algae often with water changes. Run some rowaphos or gfo. Don’t go dumping in a bunch of chemicals etc

 

[m.kristoff]

Well, I am satisfied you've taken the correct steps to cure the dry rock.

Your tank looks like an All-In-One. If so, what do you have in the "sump" area?

Its not an all in one. Its a 155 with a remote sump. a few photos are attached
attached is a photo of my turf scrubber. this is one week of growth. its a very thick layer. so there is a ton of PO4 in the system.

 

[m.kristoff]

Knowledge is power...



Reef Beef... https://www.youtube.com/@ReefBeefPodcast

lol I watched that video! I did go out and buy a bunch of urchins

 

[m.kristoff]

Some tanks are just a problem child unfortunately. I’ve set up tanks with combinations of live rock, dry rock with sand, and bare bottom with success and failure. Some take off with no issue at all and sometimes it’s the most frustrating indescribable experience lol

If you have an algae problem you have a nutrient problem, a lack of herbivores, you’re feeding too much, lastly you may be leaving phosphate but I’d address the first problems.

My suggestion: keeping running the turf scrubber, feed lightly once a day or every other day, get tuxedo and/or pincushion urchins, turbo snails, a tang if your tank is big enough.

Elbow grease most importantly. You’re going to need to manually remove algae often with water changes. Run some rowaphos or gfo. Don’t go dumping in a bunch of chemicals etc

Doing everything you have suggested for the last several months, I have several urchins, 2 tangs and a full cleanup crew including Turbos. I am very cognizant of how much I feed. lots and lots of manual removal. Its growing faster than I can keep up with! the only chemicals I have used are GFO and H2O2.

I had 0 issue when the tank started. never had an ugly stage but at the 8-month mark, it went all downhill.

 

[BriansBrain]

Doing everything you have suggested for the last several months, I have several urchins, 2 tangs and a full cleanup crew including Turbos. I am very cognizant of how much I feed. lots and lots of manual removal. Its growing faster than I can keep up with! the only chemicals I have used are GFO and H2O2.

I had 0 issue when the tank started. never had an ugly stage but at the 8-month mark, it went all downhill.

This tank was overrun with green turf and took probably 6 month or more to finally start going away. You have to stay on top of it and consistent. I the second picture just has some cyano but I always seem to get it seasonally

 

[BriansBrain]

Maybe I missed it, but what kind of algae and do you have any pictures?

 

[m.kristoff]

here are a few phots. hard to make out with the blue lights but there are 2 close ups of what it is

 

[brandon429]

hit that with the known working dose of fluconzole for a 90% chance win. I normally loathe the stuff for use but your sandbed isn't cross sectioned in waste plus thats a huge reef with only patchy low growth. you need to lower your light levels down 20% from where they're at, and sustain for 4 mos before trying to go up slightly to this condition here which is known to grow algae. do fluc and light dropping for the win, those corals will be just fine in -20% and it'll most likely help in growback.
once all the algae has dies that means the cells lysed and melted off into the sand as detritus. you'll need a 3 hour long dedicated siphon gravel vac run to export it all, from the entry top layers of the sand, to prevent the tradeoff invasions you see in fluc posts. they're leaving in the rotted target mass, work is due here no matter what but it can be focused solely on sandbed cleaning after fluc nuking. there's no other method I would use for this system.

 

[brandon429]

you absolutely must not reboot, because v2 will land here just the same. your inevitable reefing approach lends this, and it's among the easier ones to fix.

better than dinos

if you know what will work to prevent a v2 from this same destiny, you can apply that now to save the $ of trying at v2. this must be maintained, you have worthy live rock fauna that can't be replaced. this isn't bad params, this is no matched grazers

randomly putting in grazers we read that work for others isn't matched grazers. matched grazers are specific purchases known to feed in your tank because you observed one doing so. use of fluc absolutely spurns grazers into action why may not be attracted to the pre-melt condition plant.

you still have the 3 hours job even if you do the final translocation with grazers. their copious waste pellets are what you'd be exporting, work cannot be avoided here just repositioned.

 

[Seansea]

Just turn down the lights in your main display for a week or so and run them blue as can be. KEep the scrubber on 24/7 and it will eventually start making the algae want to just grow in the scrubber. Its pretty rare that i see a tank with a scrubber keep hair algae for too long.

 

[m.kristoff]

Its pretty rare that i see a tank with a scrubber keep hair algae for too long.

100% agree! but I ran that cycle for a month and no change. Thats what keeps me believe that the source is the rock. Its getting its fuel to grow wild. even the scrubber is getting crazy growth

 

[m.kristoff]

you absolutely must not reboot, because v2 will land here just the same. your inevitable reefing approach lends this, and it's among the easier ones to fix.

better than dinos

if you know what will work to prevent a v2 from this same destiny, you can apply that now to save the $ of trying at v2. this must be maintained, you have worthy live rock fauna that can't be replaced. this isn't bad params, this is no matched grazers

randomly putting in grazers we read that work for others isn't matched grazers. matched grazers are specific purchases known to feed in your tank because you observed one doing so. use of fluc absolutely spurns grazers into action why may not be attracted to the pre-melt condition plant.

you still have the 3 hours job even if you do the final translocation with grazers. their copious waste pellets are what you'd be exporting, work cannot be avoided here just repositioned.

I have been looking into fluconzole. good and bad stuff using it.

 

[brandon429]

you can see it's initial kill rate for your invasion is about 90%

what they do is leave in the mass vs the big cleanup you would be doing as the export for those fallen plants. they'll break down into ultrafine detritus and get into the top 3 inches of sandbed is the bet/ folks are by habit leaving that stuff in place to rot and it brings on dinos

hands off is causing the issues

continued hands off is cycling them into different generations of pests.

if that was my reef there is an extra step I would do: pull the entire sandbed using our structured skip cycle means, put back in as bare bottom, and run all the prior offers stated in a no sandbed tank. five months from now if the guiding process is complete and there's no algae, consider putting the sandbed back: or not. I'd not be doing this upcoming battle with a sandbed that certainly cannot pass a clouding test in place: it's feeding your gha and working against you. the average joe isn't serious enough to delve in to remove one, so I recommended next best: you litter up the sand with a nearly certain kill of all that algae via quick fluc nuke, then spend hours gravel-vacc'ing it out. I bet the fluc takes about a month to work decently.

 

[m.kristoff]

you can see it's initial kill rate for your invasion is about 90%

what they do is leave in the mass vs the big cleanup you would be doing as the export for those fallen plants. they'll break down into ultrafine detritus and get into the top 3 inches of sandbed is the bet/ folks are by habit leaving that stuff in place to rot and it brings on dinos

hands off is causing the issues

continued hands off is cycling them into different generations of pests.

if that was my reef there is an extra step I would do: pull the entire sandbed using our structured skip cycle means, put back in as bare bottom, and run all the prior offers stated in a no sandbed tank. five months from now if the guiding process is complete and there's no algae, consider putting the sandbed back: or not. I'd not be doing this upcoming battle with a sandbed that certainly cannot pass a clouding test in place: it's feeding your gha and working against you. the average joe isn't serious enough to delve in to remove one, so I recommended next best: you litter up the sand with a nearly certain kill of all that algae via quick fluc nuke, then spend hours gravel-vacc'ing it out. I bet the fluc takes about a month to work decently.

I am more than likely pulling the sand bed reboot or not. I was really looking what you are suggesting. The theory is that it would kill it all and then use cleanup crews to manage it. I think that would work in most cases but if my rock is truly leaching phosphates, its a band aid. I could be wrong, but what I am seeing now is my turf scrubber is working overtime and can't go a week without cleaning. My external skimmer is pully gunk out and it have tangs and a clean-up crew and still can't get a handle on it. the fuel is coming from somewhere

 

[brandon429]

That's rare resolve indeed

Your tank is worth big cash

I want to post only two threads that show by examples how to orderly take apart a reef to remove its sandbed without recycling, without using bottle bac, in total command the whole time assertively. If this mode is kept perfectly your tank will be the 400th skip cycle done and complete. If you change the mode such as not removing rocks and fish first, sand last, then you can kill the tank there's no middle ground.

Copying what every single job in these threads did simply works.

This is only six pages, the wording is important to read plus each of the six example threads. You're studying to know and complete reef tank surgery

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/algae-identification.707457/

This next one the wording i type isn't important, simply pick and study ten random jobs

Notice how in both threads, all jobs, we take apart the tank in an certain order we never shop vac'd out the sand for example. Notice how we tap rinse all sand, every job, both threads? That's destroying its bacteria. You can see that doesn't matter, reef tanks don't need sandbed bacteria. You'd simply take yours out and not put it back. Use new rinsed sand when you're ready to put it back, or you can indeed rinse prep this sand and store it open, drying, until use

Pick ten random jobs and look at their outcomes, their order of ops for disassembly you have to do that part exactly right then its all safe

You're taking out your sandbed and not putting it back a while, the bacteria don't need to be replaced.

Here's the huge example thread:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/official-sand-rinse-and-tank-transfer-thread.230281/page-48

 

[brandon429]

Every single job in both threads is the exact same action: carefully access a stinky sandbed so as not to rile it up when animals are present, sterilize the bed completely free of waste, put it all back. You'll be skipping only the put all sand back step

All new water is best BUT it's not practical for large tanks like it is nanos. You can drain off into a brute container about 70% of your current water for reuse as long as it's totally cloudless. If it begins to cloud on the way down stop capturing that water and toss it. You'll need some degree of fresh makeup water to complete the reassembly. Those are how your tank is going to turn out after a skip cycle reboot.

 

[melonheadorion]

when i read that there was an algae issue, i expected the picture to show an algae issue. your algae issue is mild comparative to what i had at around a 9-12 month timeframe.

the issue that you have, is nitrates and phosphates, as you know. perhaps your rocks are leeching it, but you can imagine how much it would have to leech for that to be a viable explanation. i just dont buy it. the amount of algae is mild for that to be the explanation. your algae scrubber is plenty to keep up with what it is leeching, if that was what it was doing, but the issue that you have is that algae is established in the display, and the key is to get it out of the display so that the only place it grows is in a refugium or scrubber.

i battled GHA for months, and finally kicked it without crazy things being done. my biggest contributor to beating it, was likely that i pulled the rock out and scrubbed it. i had to do this multiple times over the course of months, but eventually i won. every time i scrubbed the rock, it was ultimately removing the substance holding the N/P and removed it from the tank. i obviously dosed carbon, added cleanup crew, and started a refugium. out of all the things i did, i suspect that the top 3 contributors of fixing it was carbon dosing, refugium, and scrubbing rock. since you have a scrubber, youre already got part of that going, but to keep it out of the display, you have to remove it from the display until your scrubber takes all or more of what the display would normally grow.

now that ive gone over the obvious info that you probably knew already, for fluconazole, it may be a waste. it wont hurt, but i used it when my algae issue was bryopsis. it got rid of the briopsis, but it kicked my GHA into overdrive, probably because the bryopsis die off fueled my GHA. the big issue you will run into, when you have algae die off is that it fuels more growth becaause the n/p that it was holding, is released as food to algae in the tank. this is why you want to manually remove as much as you can by hand