Tank Size For Large Angels?- Angelfish Dominant Tank

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Zionas

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The wait to get my system is getting increasingly agonizing. Extremely slow vaccination rates here in Taiwan and mainland China being extremely conservative. I would be happy to go home and start everything before the end of this year. Politics really ruins lives.

So after some deliberation, I have decided that my focus will be angelfish. Other than the fact that many of them are simply beautiful, stalking wholesaler’s lists has led me to find out that for more showy fish I have more captive bred options for angels than anything else. I would love to create a setup where at least 1/3 of the fish are captive bred.

The Regal has been bred by Bali Aquarich but I haven’t seen any of theirs yet, but at home I get a fairly steady supply of captive bred Goldflakes and Majestic Angels from Bali Aquarich. I have also seen captive bred Blue Lines and Clarion Angels (trust me they’re cheaper than the wild ones).

Of course my ideal would be to get all 4 of these captive bred large angels, but what sort of tank size will I need for that?

According to my research Majestic reaches 10”, Goldflakes reach 10”, Clarions reach 8” and Blue Lines reach 9”. However, I assume these are maximum wild sizes. From your experience, if you have kept one or more (or all) of these fish, how fast do they grow and how big do they usually top off at captivity? How active are they?

Are any of them more reef safe than the others?

I also have access to a selection of captive bred dwarf angels. From what I have seen:

-Bali Aquarich Colin’s Angels (fairly common, won’t consider wild ones)

-Bali Aquarich Lemonpeel x Half Black Hybrid (fairly common, is it naturally occurring?)

-Bali Aquarich Multibar Angel (not as common but oh man I’d love one or two, hesitate to go wild with this species)

-Captive Bred Bicolor Angel (not sure if from Bali Aquarich, these are listed as CB on wholesaler’s lists and command 2.5 times the price of a wild caught one, from videos I’ve seen they’re pretty small, maybe another breeder or tank raised? Wild caught Bicolors go for very low prices where I am but of course knowing their poor record in captivity no way I’m considering a wild one)

-Bali Aquarich Venusta Angel (one place offers them but never seen one for sale, won’t consider wild ones

I would definitely want more than one species of dwarf angel, but not sure what the safest route is. A pair or harem of one species or one of each? (Maximum of 4) Maybe even 2 pairs of different species (not the Hybrid Lemonpeels or B as they get larger than the others)

I’m inspired by a couple of guys on here as well as guys like John Coppolino.


Obviously not angels but my Clowns will definitely be captive bred, and also looking into CB Fiji Devil Damsels. A pair of them along with Azures and Talbot’s would be awesome.

Thanks!

Ideally I want to cover every genus of angels in my dream setup. This leaves me so far with Genicanthus and Pygoplites that don’t have captive bred specimens available to me yet.
 
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Zionas

Zionas

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Also seen Scribbled Angels before captive bred from Bali Aquarich but they get larger than these 4 species I mentioned so not really keen on them.
For these 4 species I mentioned do they regularly reach 8-10” in captivity? Or do they top out at 6-7”?
I love King Angels too but know they regularly get to 9-10”.
 

Flame2hawk

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Love angels. Need big tank. The longer the better. Mixing them is tricky. Stay away from same genus and try to add all at once. Also read a bit on the different environments for each. As an example clarion prefer cooler water. If you have ay least an 8 ft tank, you can probably get away with 2 or 3 dwarf angels. Not sure about 2 bonded pairs as they can get very territorial but if I really wanted such, would probably try it in a big tank. So think big on the tank, good filtration and no coral as they’ll all pick although the Goldflake is safest bet. Good luck
 

Dolphins18

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Those sizes are maximum captivity size, many of those angels will exceed 2' in the wild.
Majestics are gorgeous animals, when you say smaller tank, if you mean a 6' then yes they will do fine. You could keep one of the others in a 4' tank, but not the majestic.
From a reef safe standpoint, next to none are more safe than others in the large angel family. Typically when keeping angels you want to try what cheap corals will work, instead of planning a reef with angels. Chances are low you can keep much coral with multiple large angels.
 
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Zionas

Zionas

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Wow even the Majestic, Clarion, and Blue Line and Gold Flake can get to 2’ in the wild? Due to space a 5-5.5’ tank looks the most likely for me now. Does that mean none of the large angels will work for life? I am really keen on that upgrade and will definitely go for it if I had the space.

As for corals yeah I’m not going for super high end corals, will be softies and LPS dominant and some easier SPS.
 

Dolphins18

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Wow even the Majestic, Clarion, and Blue Line and Gold Flake can get to 2’ in the wild? Due to space a 5-5.5’ tank looks the most likely for me now. Does that mean none of the large angels will work for life? I am really keen on that upgrade and will definitely go for it if I had the space.

As for corals yeah I’m not going for super high end corals, will be softies and LPS dominant and some easier SPS.
I am not sure on the gold flake, but the others yes. Wild fish get significantly larger than most hobbyists understand.
5'-5.5' I say go for it, not all 4 of course, But the blue line and gold flake should be fine. These fish live for a very long time, if you can set up an upgrade within 3-5 years a young majestic would not be an issue at all.
 
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Zionas

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What about temperament of these angels I mentioned? I’m not sure if I can add them at the same time because of availability. What I do know for sure is I will add the Colin’s before anything else, because they’re the most peaceful. If I understand correctly next up are the Multibars, then the Lemonpeel hybrids and then Bicolors in terms of aggression.
 

Dolphins18

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What about temperament of these angels I mentioned? I’m not sure if I can add them at the same time because of availability. What I do know for sure is I will add the Colin’s before anything else, because they’re the most peaceful. If I understand correctly next up are the Multibars, then the Lemonpeel hybrids and then Bicolors in terms of aggression.
Definitely start with dwarfs for aggression purposes, i've never kept a Colins, but the Majestic would need to come last.
Also, I saw you noted LPS and SPS, these angels listed will decimate both under normal circumstances.
 
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Zionas

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thanks. I’ll have a think about it but man I sure love these angels. Do Majestic and Goldflake Angels both grow very slowly? These two are the most available to me captive bred, see them on wholesaler’s lists all the time.

How big would you expect either of these to get in captivity? What about the Clarion and Blue Line?

I’m not so clear on the max size of the Clarion. FishBase and Scott Michael’s books all say 8”. Kuiter says 9”. Yet others say 12-14”.
 
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Fishnut

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I had a majestic for16 years in a. 4 foot 90 gallon tank. When I got her she was 2”. When she passed she was 7”. Safe with LPS for a few years.
I now have two CB blue lines that grew fast for the first couple of years, but growth has since slowed down considerably after reaching 4”. Not LPS or Leather coral safe. I can’t even try new frags because anything new in the tank it destroys. The only coral that has survived are Yumas.
 

Flame2hawk

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Hmmmm….5’ tank. Get Goldflake (if you can get one as Christmas Island has been closed and tank bred tough to come by) and blue line w/b my choices. If u cant get them together add the dwarfs first ( personally I wouldn’t do more than 1 bonded pair or 1 singular dwarf in a 5’ tank) followed by other angels together. You will still need to upgrade in 2 yrs or so. Of course you will need to buy the large angels as juvi’s for this to have a chance to work.
 
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Zionas

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You must have been sad to lose the Majestic. Do you have any idea what happened to it? Was it old age or something else? I know they live at least as long as Tangs and it’s not rare to see a Tang that’s lived for 15+, and 20+ years.
 
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jaganshi066

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You must have been sad to lose the Majestic. Do you have any idea what happened to it? Was it old age or something else? I know they live at least as long as Tangs and it’s not rare to see a Tang that’s lived for 15+, and 20+ years.
Seems like old age, I would be happy to see any fish live 10+ years
 
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Captive bred ones are regularly available to me through wholesalers so that’s not an issue. It’s the easiest for me to get the Majestic and Goldflake as my captive bred options for large angels, Blue Line and Clarion I’ve seen them too but they aren’t as commonly imported from Bali Aquarich, I suspect it might be due to different breeding patterns and maybe greater difficulty in getting wild stock for the Clarions.

Since I can get them captive bred all of these species will be young or very young. On average the Majestic Angels (CB) are 2.5-3” and the Goldflakes are 2-2.5” when they’re sold. In my place at least. I think I’ll definitely add the dwarfs first.

And I definitely want to upgrade so I can have more of the ones I want. Will let you and others know how it goes. I have no plans of putting a very big tank anywhere higher than the 1st floor.

My ideal tank is an 8’ 300 gallon but I play around with calculators and I’m willing to settle for a 7’ tank that’s 250-280 gallons, depending on how much space I end up getting and it has to be on the first floor.
 

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Majestics are very slow growing. I have not seen one over about 8-9" in an aquarium. Clarions are generally only about 8-10" maximum in an aquarium in my experience. I don't think either get to 2 ft even in the wild. They would be OK in the tanks you are considering. I kept of few Clarions in the 1980's when they could be purchased for about $200. They are much more aggressive than the other angels you are considering IMO. I would not want to mix one with a Goldflake. I would introduce it last. Mixing large angels is always a challenge, but I found it easier to keep 5 or more than 2-3 if you have a large enough tank. It spreads out the aggression and the weaker ones are not constantly picked on.
 
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