TBS Live Rock - Very high ammonia, no nitrite, barely any nitrate

[Thrillik]

Hello,

I'm starting a red sea nano tank. I put 20 lbs of TBS Live Rock into it and a few lbs of dead Marco rocks (mainly base rocks for a foundation). The rocks have been in for nearly 4 days now. Ammonia spiked pretty drastically. I'm using the Red Sea test kit, so Ammonia readings only go up to 2.0, and my readings have been above that for the past 60 hours. I've been doing 10g water changes every day (so >30%), but it only provides temporary relief.

I noticed apstasia on some of the rock, so I went to my LFS to look for something to deal with it, and while there, I asked the owner what he suggested I do. He gave me some Dr Tims One and Only, which I added to the tank ~30 hours ago. Ammonia continues to be very high and increasing.

My testing also shows absolutely no nitrite and a very, very small amount of nitrate (the water is barely pink - you really have to look hard to tell).

The clean-up crew that I have in there (which came with the live rock) + the 2 peppermint shrimp I put in seem to be doing alright.

Just not sure where I should go from here. I was under the impression that the tank would cycle quickly using TBS and the live rock would be able to handle its own ammonia, but right now, it seems like the bacteria that came with the live rock + what came from Dr Tims isn't doing anything since there is no/very little turn over from ammonia to nitrite/nitrate.

Would adding in Seachem Prime be helpful?

Any thoughts?

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

Let it cy le out, there is dieoff from shipping pumping out that ammonia, just change the water as you see fit so that you don't have phos and nitrates off the scale when it completes. Or do a 100% once the ammonia disappears.

That's what I would do at least.

 

[jda]

There was more bacteria on that rock than in Dr. Tims. It won't hurt anything, but it was money that you did not need to spend.

Depending on how it was shipped and what was on it, there can be die-off on real live rock. It will work it's self out. Just let it be.

Is the water dirty looking and smelly? That rock had nitrite oxidizing bacteria on it too, so with no nitrite you also might not actually have any ammonia, or at least not as much as the test kit might be registering.

 

[Thrillik]

There was more bacteria on that rock than in Dr. Tims. It won't hurt anything, but it was money that you did not need to spend.

Depending on how it was shipped and what was on it, there can be die-off on real live rock. It will work it's self out. Just let it be.

Is the water dirty looking and smelly? That rock had nitrite oxidizing bacteria on it too, so with no nitrite you also might not actually have any ammonia, or at least not as much as the test kit might be registering.

The water doesn't look dirty, but it definitely smells.

 

[jda]

Like rotten stuff, or like a saltwater tank or the ocean in general? High ammonia tanks from cycling live rock make people want to puke - my wife makes me do it outside on the back patio.

 

[Thrillik]

Like rotten stuff, or like a saltwater tank or the ocean in general? High ammonia tanks from cycling live rock make people want to puke - my wife makes me do it outside on the back patio.

It doesn't smell like the ocean. It's not a pleasant smell - it's pretty stinky.

 

[jda]

If you see some rotting stuff then suck it out. Otherwise, just let it do it's thing. It has all of the bacteria that it needs - it just needs time to work. If you have a skimmer, set it to run full-tilt - mine used to pull all kinds of nasty gunk with cycling live rock.

When I used to cure live rock, it would go from nasty to good very quickly once it was done doing it's thing. I used to change water to help in the early days and not so much later on.

 

[Thrillik]

Thanks for the responses. Sounds like I just need to be more patient.

 

[LilElroyJetson]

Yup. Another vote for it’s just die off, ride it out.

 

[Roatan Reef]

Yup. Another vote for it’s just die off, ride it out.

Correct. Added a piece of 5lb TBS Live Rock to tank several months ago...had some die off, did water changes, tank is great and not only did it help my tank alot, I also got a cool cup coral from the Atlantic Ocean that you can't buy anywhere.

Thanks for the responses. Sounds like I just need to be more patient.

 

[LiverockRocks]

Hello,

I'm starting a red sea nano tank. I put 20 lbs of TBS Live Rock into it and a few lbs of dead Marco rocks (mainly base rocks for a foundation). The rocks have been in for nearly 4 days now. Ammonia spiked pretty drastically. I'm using the Red Sea test kit, so Ammonia readings only go up to 2.0, and my readings have been above that for the past 60 hours. I've been doing 10g water changes every day (so >30%), but it only provides temporary relief.

I noticed apstasia on some of the rock, so I went to my LFS to look for something to deal with it, and while there, I asked the owner what he suggested I do. He gave me some Dr Tims One and Only, which I added to the tank ~30 hours ago. Ammonia continues to be very high and increasing.

My testing also shows absolutely no nitrite and a very, very small amount of nitrate (the water is barely pink - you really have to look hard to tell).

The clean-up crew that I have in there (which came with the live rock) + the 2 peppermint shrimp I put in seem to be doing alright.

Just not sure where I should go from here. I was under the impression that the tank would cycle quickly using TBS and the live rock would be able to handle its own ammonia, but right now, it seems like the bacteria that came with the live rock + what came from Dr Tims isn't doing anything since there is no/very little turn over from ammonia to nitrite/nitrate.

Would adding in Seachem Prime be helpful?

Any thoughts?

Hey there @Thrillik,

Not sure which customer you may be or if you may have emailed us regarding high ammonia.

Couple things to keep in mind, we always recommend for new tanks / uncycled tanks, to begin with the TBS Package shipped in 2 phases, or order live sand & base rock. Let the tank cycle a week, then add premium rock. Allowing a new tank to build bacteria with Part 1 (sand & base) prepares the system to handle any die off that may happen once the premium rock is added (Part 2). Premium rock doesn't like ammonia, hence the 2-part method.

Some customers with smaller tanks (5-15gal) ask for the complete Package to be shipped at one time. Customers are informed that daily water changes are required for generally a week, slowly tapering down. This helps control extra ammonia that can't be processed by the young tank. Lower lights, high flow, no feeding and no adding extra lifeforms are very important.

From what I am reading above, you need to continue daily water changes. There is no need to add bottle bacteria or Prime. If the water smells fowl, then remove rocks that have sponges/tunicates on them and smell the rock. IF a sponge/tunicate smells bad, scrape it off. Place rock back in the tank and continue with high flow and water changes. Things will stabilize soon.

Also, please forward a photo of what you are identifying as aiptasia. Folks often think hidden cup corals are aiptasia. We do have a solitary "sponge anemone" that resembles an aiptasia, it often has a greenish disk and the tips will sometimes bubble like a bubble tip. It does not spread but lives alone. If you are concerned, peppermint shrimp will eventually eat it.

Happy to help on this thread or PM me.

 

[brandon429]

Well said

Post pics of this rock pls

 

[Thrillik]

Would love to find out this has been misidentified.

 

[brandon429]

I'm the most skeptical ammonia noncontrol reefer on this board, I never believe an extended case of ammonia noncontrol because none of the reports are from a seneye machine, they're from non digital ammonia kits we can easily search out in countless threads showing ammonia noncontrol in perfectly aged/normal running reef tanks without any possible mechanism at play

however, that degree of rotting periphyton above, I can agree that may be a real true extended case. carve that stuff off outside the tank, people don't farm that in reefing.

take a clean flathead screwdriver and shove it with precision (and force) up under that anemone, and carve it out like a divot, that's a stinging-type that you don't want to proliferate.

there's no benefit in waiting all this time for the rock to self-cure, and litter the tank. hand cure it, scrape off that stuff with a knife and reveal the actual valuable high surface area rock (and likely coralline) underneath that section, or any section that has that level of periphyton coverage. that's how live rocks are supposed to look, that's the best rock you can put in your tank when it's all cured. not all rock comes that way/the ocean has varying zones and deposits that may occur. hand cure that stuff so it doesn't rot off in the tank.

 

[brandon429]

what you want to do is take any of the rocks you got and using steel tools, NOT brushes, you rasp and detail-pick off the things most likely to rot over time

how to know what that is: pull up anyone's pristinely aged reef tank and see their rocks. it's corals and coralline, cure it down to that vs let it rot and shed off slowly in the tank. remove any invasive macroalgaes you see

don't dip the rock or apply things into the water, those are teeth in need of reef dentistry and whats underneath all that is surface area gold, and bacterial gold. If I had some of that rock I'd be so happy. It would get the dentistry on my counter down to what I want it to look like, rinsed off a few times in saltwater along the way, then I'd set up a skip cycle nano reef worth a bazillion dollars in it and have it stocked with high value corals in a week. I would then flood any reef website I could possibly find with my pics and method, using google translator to hit the international sites too he he.

you don't use brushes to cure because that smashes/pestles the targets deep into the rock crevices and you want those crevices open and receiving of water contact from the display water, so use knives and sharpened punches/cleaned off ones/be creative and take time to metal-rasp off the things you can see from other people's reef tank pics don't stay around over time.

 

[brandon429]

this is a handy thread to post in our updated cycling science thread. it's the first thread all year long where I believe someone with a reef tank has an extended ammonia control issue.

 

[Thrillik]

this is a handy thread to post in our updated cycling science thread. it's the first thread all year long where I believe someone with a reef tank has an extended ammonia control issue.

Lucky me.

 

[Thrillik]

Thanks for the responses. I will finish up working and then get to doing this.

 

[jda]

I used to cycle a lot of rock. Swishing the rock in a bucket outside the tank is as far as I like to go - the dead stuff falls off pretty easily. Brushes and scrubbing can remove things that might make it and I would rather wait a few more days than miss out on them. If you take that rock out, put some calcium hydroxide over that aiptasia and let it sit for a few minutes before you put it back in the tank.

This was a very common thing when people started tanks with uncured rock. You are not even wasting time... bacteria, film algae, microfauna, etc. are already spreading in your tank.

 

[Thrillik]

I have aiptasia-X getting delivered on Friday. Think I should wait until then and use that rather than disassemble the tank? Or do I still need to scrape other stuff off too?

Also, would dosing Seachem Prime help with this issue? I do have some on hand.