TBS Live Rock - Very high ammonia, no nitrite, barely any nitrate

[LiverockRocks]

I was so excited after BRS and Ryan talked about how great TBS products were and was going to add their sand and rubble to the new tank I’m about to build. While I understand there will be hitchhikers per their website and most of them good; Aptasia is a very different kind of problem. Can someone from TBS respond on the increase in bad hitchhikers I’ve seen on R2R posts lately?

And before anyone slams me that there are no guarantees in what you get with live products, I am specifically asking since TBS cites very little issues like these and many on this site have used the product on many generations of their tanks.

I am really wanting to get this product and love everything the brand stands for, but as a very new reefer, I’m trying to be as cautious as one can.

Hey there,

The Tampa Bay Saltwater farm was the first live rock farm in Florida, it is located in the Gulf off Tarpon Springs. Lifeforms found on the farm have been consistent over the past decades. Couple things to keep in mind, the water temps historically swing from the high 40s to the high 80s. This temp fluctuation is not conducive to the many fish/coral diseases. Our holding system is run on natural salt water with no UV sterilizing, no dosing, no skimming and no additives. We do not contaminate our system by buying/selling fish/coral from other parts of the country/world. Everything is diver harvested from the Gulf of Mexico.

If you are concerned about certain hitchhikers:
Add TBS products to a life supporting, appropriately sized aquarium complete with oxygenated flowing water, and light. This could be the display tank or an observation tank depending on your situation. We recommend waiting at least a week before slowly adding lifeforms, you can wait longer to observe. During this time, you will have the opportunity to pick and choose what hikers you want or don't want. Dislike macroalgae, pick it off. Intimidated by a gorilla, set a trap. See a whelk, grab it out. Unwanted nem, add a peppermint. Baby octopus, net at night. Snapping pistol shrimp, buy a goby. Tiny isopod, wait it out. Horrified by mantis, trap and sell. Stone crab, melt butter. Expired tunicate, scrape it off. Tulip snail, save the shell. Cup coral, let it be.

Folks, we harvest from the ocean! J & M touch every rock more than 5x and in doing so remove hikers that the majority of our customers don't want. Keep the big picture in mind, our products have 0 of 10 known coral pathogens, 0 of 42 known fish pathogens and 0 of suspected coral pathogens. I'd be far more worried about the unquarantined fish added to the tank then a disliked trappable lifeform.

Rock on.

 

[ESABOE]

Hey there,

The Tampa Bay Saltwater farm was the first live rock farm in Florida, it is located in the Gulf off Tarpon Springs. Lifeforms found on the farm have been consistent over the past decades. Couple things to keep in mind, the water temps historically swing from the high 40s to the high 80s. This temp fluctuation is not conducive to the many fish/coral diseases. Our holding system is run on natural salt water with no UV sterilizing, no dosing, no skimming and no additives. We do not contaminate our system by buying/selling fish/coral from other parts of the country/world. Everything is diver harvested from the Gulf of Mexico.

If you are concerned about certain hitchhikers:
Add TBS products to a life supporting, appropriately sized aquarium complete with oxygenated flowing water, and light. This could be the display tank or an observation tank depending on your situation. We recommend waiting at least a week before slowly adding lifeforms, you can wait longer to observe. During this time, you will have the opportunity to pick and choose what hikers you want or don't want. Dislike macroalgae, pick it off. Intimidated by a gorilla, set a trap. See a whelk, grab it out. Unwanted nem, add a peppermint. Baby octopus, net at night. Snapping pistol shrimp, buy a goby. Tiny isopod, wait it out. Horrified by mantis, trap and sell. Stone crab, melt butter. Expired tunicate, scrape it off. Tulip snail, save the shell. Cup coral, let it be.

Folks, we harvest from the ocean! J & M touch every rock more than 5x and in doing so remove hikers that the majority of our customers don't want. Keep the big picture in mind, our products have 0 of 10 known coral pathogens, 0 of 42 known fish pathogens and 0 of suspected coral pathogens. I'd be far more worried about the unquarantined fish added to the tank then a disliked trappable lifeform.

Rock on.

Yes, thank you for that information - I had read all that on your site. I‘m specifically asking about Aptasia and the increase in people on this site mentioning it in their deliveries. Have you seen more and have more of your customers mentioned this to you? It doesn’t seem like it was a concern until recently in the last two years.

 

[jabberwock]

Yes, thank you for that information - I had read all that on your site. I‘m specifically asking about Aptasia and the increase in people on this site mentioning it in their deliveries. Have you seen more and have more of your customers mentioned this to you? It doesn’t seem like it was a concern until recently in the last two years.

A lot of incorrect identifications in my experience...

Cup corals, lightbulb nems etc. No guarantees, but the benefits FAR out weigh the potential negatives.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

I want to start this out by THIS WAS NOT FROM TAMBA BAY. I REPEAT, THIS WAS NOT FROM TAMBA BAY. But, for those following, or reading this for their project, follow Tampa's guidance, I wish I went that route... I purchased premium wet rock flow up on a short flight through ATL to MEM on SW packed as you see. There was a slight delay in transportation (Or, I was given poor flight information when I ordered). We were waiting on the plane and had the boxes unpacked and in the display within 2 hours of landing. We had ordered 50 pounds (it might have been 70 now that I think about it), I have another thread I should research to ensure I am consistent, or at least consistently wrong like everything else in life . I wasn't coached by this vendor to ensure the system I was putting it in was able to digest this level of ammonia, nor did I ask, shame on me. I assumed using 10+ pounds of seeded biomedia would do the trick, though they came from my >4 year old 130G system, but it does have a lighter bioload. Within 12 hours the first floor smelled like death, and this Reefer 250 is parked in our bedroom! Another great idea I had, can you imagine my wife wondering if her clothes were going to smell like we were keeping bodies from the public in our house? Huge daily water changes, every other day taking the rocks out and scrubbing them (before I started reading up on Brandon's stuff and his titanium ice pick strategy), luckily I assumed there would be some die off and didn't put the sand in on day one, I knew I would have huge water changes and had planned to put the sand in on a 80% water change, while I did follow Brandon's "use a pool's volume of water to rinse each bag of sand", and that is brilliant advice, I can move anything in that tank and it not dust up the universe for the day. Back to the story, I decided to dark cure in the display for 30 days, I added an insane amount of copepods into the display, I mean like BRS Investigates amount. That tank is 2 months and 14 days old and the rock actually looks really good, the coralline did not turn white, I added 20 pounds of rock from a 20G that crashed due to a heater, so you may see some lighter colored rocks. We chose the premium as my wife LOVES the biodiversity we have seen in prior shipments, we have "rescue tanks" in the house for mantis, etc, that have hitch hiked their way to 901. I really wished I had gone to Tampa Bay or ask the right questions, I can't pass all the blame on to someone else, I should have done just a tad bit more research. You aren't being sold something you don't need. You need the multi step approach, I chose to shortcut it and wound up with a house that smelled like death for nearly 2 weeks. And in late June early July, it's not like you can open a window and let the nuclear winter's heat in the house... The kids would feel like it was little house on the prairie not the butcher's factory that Rocky worked at... Good stuff!

I know the uglies are coming, I think they are. But, so far I have only had to deal with diatoms. Updating the sump and lighting in the next week or two and then in 4 weeks we hope to fill it full of SPS. Fingers crossed, here we come. Sorry for the high jack, just wish I didn't cut a corner. Happy reefing...

They are shy I guess, there are 5 fish in that tank, they like all the caves

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

The smell of death brewing...

 

[Thrillik]

Since this got brought back up, I feel it’s worth giving an update on the original content of the thread:

My tank is now doing very well and fully cycled. I have about 7 corals and an anemone in it with 2 fish being delivered from Dr Reef in about 2 weeks. Despite the high ammonia levels at the time, all of my CuC and peppermint shrimp survived and seem to be doing just fine.

I have not seen anymore aiptasia since the one that I killed by hand. Unsure if that’s due to the shrimp or just that there was no more.

I did have not seen any of the other bad hitchhikers up to this point (although I did murder several crabs prior to putting the rock in my tank). Outside of my lack of patience, TBS has been great thus far.

 

[LiverockRocks]

Since this got brought back up, I feel it’s worth giving an update on the original content of the thread:

My tank is now doing very well and fully cycled. I have about 7 corals and an anemone in it with 2 fish being delivered from Dr Reef in about 2 weeks. Despite the high ammonia levels at the time, all of my CuC and peppermint shrimp survived and seem to be doing just fine.

I have not seen anymore aiptasia since the one that I killed by hand. Unsure if that’s due to the shrimp or just that there was no more.

I did have not seen any of the other bad hitchhikers up to this point (although I did murder several crabs prior to putting the rock in my tank). Outside of my lack of patience, TBS has been great thus far.

I am glad to hear the tank is doing well.

Yes, thank you for that information - I had read all that on your site. I‘m specifically asking about Aptasia and the increase in people on this site mentioning it in their deliveries. Have you seen more and have more of your customers mentioned this to you? It doesn’t seem like it was a concern until recently in the last two years.

Thank you for being so concerned about our small business.

Tampa Bay Saltwater was purchased from the founder just over 2 years ago. Londeree was physically unable to dive, so he hired divers for a few years to keep TBS alive. The folks he hired, were not up for the job, TBS stopped fulfilling orders and he decided to sell the business. Now that TBS has been back in business for 2 years, you are seeing increased chatter regarding hikers. There is no increase of any specific hiker on the farm.

There are many species (12+) of aiptasia with various differences including reproduction.

According to biologists at FWC, the TBS farm has 2 species in the family Aiptasiidae, "neither are the aiptasia commonly discussed or encountered in aquaria forums."-FWC.

One, we refer to as a sponge anemone, is an "undescribed species in the genus Bellatis. This particular species does not proliferate asexually. -FWC". It lives solitary, sometimes has a greenish tint and are varying shades of brown. A peppermint shrimp, a flexible blade or CBB will remove it.
edit: this anemone documented to host snapping shrimp

The other one, we refer to as the TBS bubble tip, is a lightbulb anemone. The lightbulb nem, from the family Aiptasiidae, "will have a published name soon. -FWC". It comes in shades of brown and sometimes beige. It often has stringy tentacles much like a bubble tip doesn't always bubble. It does not reproduce in an aquarium and a peppermint shrimp, flexible blade or CBB will remove it.

The Tampa Bay Saltwater farm does not have the same species of aiptasia found as hitchhikers from LFS and online venders that spread like a plague, this has been verified by biologists at FWC.

If you are a TBS customer and worried about something that looks like an aiptasia: it could be a hidden cup coral, an undescribed species aka sponge anemone, or a lightbulb anemone aka TBS Bubble Tip.

 

[ESABOE]

I am glad to hear the tank is doing well.

Thank you for being so concerned about our small business.

Tampa Bay Saltwater was purchased from the founder just over 2 years ago. Londeree was physically unable to dive, so he hired divers for a few years to keep TBS alive. The folks he hired, were not up for the job, TBS stopped fulfilling orders and he decided to sell the business. Now that TBS has been back in business for 2 years, you are seeing increased chatter regarding hikers. There is no increase of any specific hiker on the farm.

There are many species (12+) of aiptasia with various differences including reproduction.

According to biologists at FWC, the TBS farm has 2 species in the family Aiptasiidae, "neither are the aiptasia commonly discussed or encountered in aquaria forums."-FWC.

One, we refer to as a sponge anemone, is an "undescribed species in the genus Bellatis. This particular species does not proliferate asexually. -FWC". It lives solitary, sometimes has a greenish tint and are varying shades of brown. A peppermint shrimp, a flexible blade or CBB will remove it.
edit: this anemone documented to host snapping shrimp

The other one, we refer to as the TBS bubble tip, is a lightbulb anemone. The lightbulb nem, from the family Aiptasiidae, "will have a published name soon. -FWC". It comes in shades of brown and sometimes beige. It often has stringy tentacles much like a bubble tip doesn't always bubble. It does not reproduce in an aquarium and a peppermint shrimp, flexible blade or CBB will remove it.

The Tampa Bay Saltwater farm does not have the same species of aiptasia found as hitchhikers from LFS and online venders that spread like a plague, this has been verified by biologists at FWC.

If you are a TBS customer and worried about something that looks like an aiptasia: it could be a hidden cup coral, an undescribed species aka sponge anemone, or a lightbulb anemone aka TBS Bubble Tip.

Thank you so much for not only explaining the different varieties of Aptasia, but the testing that has been done to determine what TBS deals with (non-reproducing). As a very new reefer, I have only heard of the type most people dread from LFS or coral vendors that don’t maintain their tanks and don’t have control protocols to reduce these types of things.

When a company takes the time to answer these questions, it speaks volumes about how they run their facilities.

Looking forward to getting some sand and rubble from you once my tank is delivered, I might post some pictures if I get hitchhikers to help in identifying as I don’t want to remove the good ones, since everyone here says they are cool and rare in the hitchhiker dept.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Thank you so much for not only explaining the different varieties of Aptasia, but the testing that has been done to determine what TBS deals with (non-reproducing). As a very new reefer, I have only heard of the type most people dread from LFS or coral vendors that don’t maintain their tanks and don’t have control protocols to reduce these types of things.

When a company takes the time to answer these questions, it speaks volumes about how they run their facilities.

Looking forward to getting some sand and rubble from you once my tank is delivered, I might post some pictures if I get hitchhikers to help in identifying as I don’t want to remove the good ones, since everyone here says they are cool and rare in the hitchhiker dept.

Agreed.

 

[LiverockRocks]

Thank you so much for not only explaining the different varieties of Aptasia, but the testing that has been done to determine what TBS deals with (non-reproducing). As a very new reefer, I have only heard of the type most people dread from LFS or coral vendors that don’t maintain their tanks and don’t have control protocols to reduce these types of things.

When a company takes the time to answer these questions, it speaks volumes about how they run their facilities.

Looking forward to getting some sand and rubble from you once my tank is delivered, I might post some pictures if I get hitchhikers to help in identifying as I don’t want to remove the good ones, since everyone here says they are cool and rare in the hitchhiker dept.

Thank you.

 

[jeffsz]

Have an “aptasia garden” in a section of my WB 4820. People love it, has been growing and stable for 2 years now. Decided early on just to watch them. Non- reef people always comment how cool they look flowing.
Rock came from LFS for biocube build 4years ago. Added some peppermint shrimp just in case, they have not spread or taken over tank. Early on I was adding joes juice to whatever looked like aptasia, bust thing I did was relax and let the system go. Now my Kenya tree is another story… constantly pulling out its saplings.
Not all aptasia is cause for freaking out.