The Bacterial “Rip Clean” Method

[sixty_reefer]

I decided to use liquid seaweed on my two youngest tanks at a starting dose of .5ml per gallon of water, twice a day: once during lights on for ornamental macros and once at night for the bacteria. Bottom 55G tank is 6 weeks set up and shows film algae on glass every day. Top tank at 20 months mature has two established cryptic sponge refugiums: one in hi flow canister filter and one in plenum with reverse flow undergravel filter.

@sixty_reefer
Do you think that liquid seaweed would be a good carbon source for phytoplankton cultures in addition to Guillard f/2 fertilizer?

Tomorrow I get reef Actif and I will treat my two oldest tanks. My largest tank at 120G with 40G cryptic refugium with mud filter took a bullet in September when expoxed electrical cord pulled out of submersible pump. This happened while I was out of town for 2 weeks. When I first came home I saw much algae everywhere. and thought no big deal. Electricity arched in the water which generates chlorine. Because the pump motor windings were exposed to salt water, I probably have copper in my display tank. The pump that failed powered reverse flow undergravel filter with 2’ by 4’ plenum with 2” aragonite sandbed.

Live Phytoplankton is only as good as the nutrients in the brine water, having less phosphates is always a good thing in my books.
I would not add the liquid seaweed to any system that have Cyanobacteria or film algae.
reason being that the nitrogen could potentially work as a source of energy. I would start with the actif.
I’m not sure if the liquid seaweed fertiliser contains carbon, it’s hard to determine as we dnt know how they were manufactured.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Wow! This seems like a really intriguing idea. Is there anyway I could humbly request a synthesized summary of the discussion for those of us who aren't as scientifically versed as some of you guys? I'd really like to understand the concept in laymen's terms if possible.

@beesnreefs put it really well, it’s just a method of accelerating the transformation of organic matter (uneaten food and fish waste) and inorganic nutrients (nitrate and phosphates) into organic nutrition in the form of bacterial that can be removed from the water column via organisms that feed on bacteria, protein skimmer or water changes.
This strengthens trophic levels feeding a reef from the bottom level up as it happens in nature.
The positive side is that by accelerating the decomposition of organic matter (fish food and fish waste) with carbohydrates will contribute for a overall reduction in ammonia due to those being less time in contact with the water column that if left to decompose slowly in systems with poor filtration can contribute for the increase chances of the development of nuisance organism like Cyanobacteria and algae.
In the case of algae it doesn’t kill it directly as they can also use nitrates and reduce them to ammonia although as the process of reducing nitrates to ammonia requires using extra energy it will give the CUC a better chance to keep the outbreak under control as they’re preferred form of nitrogen becomes less available (ammonia).
In the case of dinoflagellates and Cyanobacteria it will reduce their preferred form of nitrogen (ammonia) and slowly starve them into smaller number again.
it’s not a miracle cure is just a way to efficiently reduce the root case of energy that can contribute to the growth of nuisances. Once all nuisances are in control and eradicated allowing for ammonia to raise again or dose it separately will contribute to the growth of coral as all other photosynthetic organisms that used to compete for it are now off the system.
The idea comes from biofloc technology were carbohydrates are used in aquaculture to reduce ammonia and increase extra feed for the organisms being cultured from the uneaten food and fish waste with this form of carbon. I’ve shared the link to one of the studies in the first post.

 

[Subsea]

Live Phytoplankton is only as good as the nutrients in the brine water, having less phosphates is always a good thing in my books.
I would not add the liquid seaweed to any system that have Cyanobacteria or film algae.
reason being that the nitrogen could potentially work as a source of energy. I would start with the actif.
I’m not sure if the liquid seaweed fertiliser contains carbon, it’s hard to determine as we dnt know how they were manufactured.

I am trying to get MSDS data sheet but company that manufactures liquid seaweed is also a medical biotech research company and information seems to be hidden in proprietary processes. I am researching this further and will use liquid seaweed in Phytoplankton culture.

 

[TiggMG]

Dosing has to be done manually, reef actif is in powder form and will have to be mixed with tank water and agitated to mix. It can’t be done via dosing unit unfortunately. I prefer to dose it at lights out although you could dose it at any time really the advantage of dosing at light out is to reduce it from being used by photosynthetic organisms.
the amount varies with volume the introduction says a full scoop per 132 gallons tree times a week, I just divide my full amount and do it daily.

the first sign that it’s working would be glass maintenance you should observe less green algae forming on the glass hence less glass maintenance, in time you should observe the Cyanobacteria receding naturally and starting to melt, with the GHA you will see it turning brown.

I use the Tropic Marin Reef Snow. Is it the same as Reef Actif?

 

[Dburr1014]

My reef actif has shipped.
Feb 1st - 3rd is delivery.

 

[Dburr1014]

I use the Tropic Marin Reef Snow. Is it the same as Reef Actif?

No, that is a totally different product.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I am trying to get MSDS data sheet but company that manufactures liquid seaweed is also a medical biotech research company and information seems to be hidden in proprietary processes. I am researching this further and will use liquid seaweed in Phytoplankton culture.

If you get it could you share it?

 

[sixty_reefer]

I use the Tropic Marin Reef Snow. Is it the same as Reef Actif?

I agree with @Dburr1014, reading the description it sound to be something similar to reef roids which is zooplankton and not organic carbon although it may contain some if it’s zooplankton.

 

[Swede Reef]

@sixty_reefer
Thank you for putting this thread up and all the hard work you put into it. I find it very interesting and very helpful. To my simple mind this all makes sense. As a pretty new reefer (2-3 yrs) you make it pretty easy to follow along and I may try this on a small nano to see if this might be for me. I do have reef actif (was given it as a gift and sitting on a shelf) and will try to setup a small experiment. I am all for a more natural process that makes sense to me. Definitely watching.
Cheers,

E.

 

[alabella1]

Not to throw a whole monkeywrench in here, but is this true? From premium aquatics...

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

Not to throw a whole monkeywrench in here, but is this true? From premium aquatics...

Not according to the manufacturer:

This is a very important product for us. It is not being discontinued. You will find it available in many places. All of oyur Tropic MArin Preferred Dealers should have the product available for you. Here is a link tot he Preferred Dealer Store Locator. I hope this helps...

Preferred Dealers

Many stores throughout the US carry Tropic Marin products, but our Preferred Dealers carry a larger selection of our line and are also using Tropic Marin in their store systems. Some of the...

www.tropicmarin-usa.com

 

[alabella1]

Not according to the manufacturer:

Cool! I might go try to find some then. As you were!!

 

[alabella1]

Not according to the manufacturer:

What about online dealers? This just looks to be physical stores.

 

[DCR]

AquaCave carries the product and there may be others. I got an order in earlier before they ran out. I imagine with demand this thread has created that they will continue to carry it.

 

[brandon429]

anything involved with Tropic marin I really like. my pico reef was accustomed to their salt, then I had to move cities which now only sells clouded up low salinity red sea mix water to all their reef customers, ugg. tropic marin was the best quality saltwater I'd ever used for my pico reef, it made a notable difference in tank health after one month of using it. now I'm back on the red sea slump. I don't want to make my own change water is the issue/stuck with what lfs' offer I guess then.

 

[alabella1]

anything involved with Tropic marin I really like. my pico reef was accustomed to their salt, then I had to move cities which now only sells clouded up low salinity red sea mix water to all their reef customers, ugg. tropic marin was the best quality saltwater I'd ever used for my pico reef, it made a notable difference in tank health after one month of using it. now I'm back on the red sea slump. I don't want to make my own change water is the issue/stuck with what lfs' offer I guess then.

Did you see Red Sea has changed their formula? Maybe you'll have better luck with the newer stuff, assuming your LFS starts using it. I make my own and feel like I get the most bang for my buck out of the IO Purple buckets. A recent Petsmart sale I got them for around $23 a bucket. I bought 11, lol.

 

[Nano sapiens]

anything involved with Tropic marin I really like. my pico reef was accustomed to their salt, then I had to move cities which now only sells clouded up low salinity red sea mix water to all their reef customers, ugg. tropic marin was the best quality saltwater I'd ever used for my pico reef, it made a notable difference in tank health after one month of using it. now I'm back on the red sea slump. I don't want to make my own change water is the issue/stuck with what lfs' offer I guess then.

I've used both Tropic Marin 'Classic' (before the Turkey issues) and Red Sea Blue bucket. TMC mixed very clean, in fact the cleanest of any salt I've ever used. The RSBB initially mixes a bit more on the cloudy side, but that's likely because it is partially created from naturally evaporated sea salt and therefore has an active ocean bacterial component.

I honestly can't say I see any difference in the health of the reef animals going from TM to RS in my mixed reef nano, though.

 

[brandon429]

hey good to know. I wondered why the lfs is selling me water that looks nearly opaque, I figured they're keeping pumps in the holding vat which is keeping up the solids/precips vs letting them settle out like we see in stilled holding systems/brown crud on the bottom. I really really really don't want to get the gear to make my own water so I'm stuck with it. I've been buying their cloud water, taking it home and letting it set, then decanting off the top of it into another clean container for holding and to add in my Kent salt to bring their reef water up from . 020 lol.

spoiled: in lubbock I could walk in for the same price and buy pre mixed clean TM water at .025 no hassles. no nine follow up steps for use. glad to know its likely a reconstitution thing and not a water quality thing. since I only test for salinity and temp I wouldnt know if it was a quality thing, I'd have to wait to see it in my corals.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I've used both Tropic Marin 'Classic' (before the Turkey issues) and Red Sea Blue bucket. TMC mixed very clean, in fact the cleanest of any salt I've ever used. The RSBB initially mixes a bit more on the cloudy side, but that's likely because it is partially created from naturally evaporated sea salt and therefore has an active ocean bacterial component.

I honestly can't say I see any difference in the health of the reef animals going from TM to RS in my mixed reef nano, though.

I use red sea blue bucket. I mix it in 5 gallons buckets. I've never noticed any cloudiness after just a few minutes of mixing with a 250 gph pump. I add the salt a little at a time (two or three batches) to ensure alk doesn't precipitate while it mixes.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

@beesnreefs put it really well, it’s just a method of accelerating the transformation of organic matter (uneaten food and fish waste) and inorganic nutrients (nitrate and phosphates) into organic nutrition in the form of bacterial that can be removed from the water column via organisms that feed on bacteria, protein skimmer or water changes.
This strengthens trophic levels feeding a reef from the bottom level up as it happens in nature.
The positive side is that by accelerating the decomposition of organic matter (fish food and fish waste) with carbohydrates will contribute for a overall reduction in ammonia due to those being less time in contact with the water column that if left to decompose slowly in systems with poor filtration can contribute for the increase chances of the development of nuisance organism like Cyanobacteria and algae.
In the case of algae it doesn’t kill it directly as they can also use nitrates and reduce them to ammonia although as the process of reducing nitrates to ammonia requires using extra energy it will give the CUC a better chance to keep the outbreak under control as they’re preferred form of nitrogen becomes less available (ammonia).
In the case of dinoflagellates and Cyanobacteria it will reduce their preferred form of nitrogen (ammonia) and slowly starve them into smaller number again.
it’s not a miracle cure is just a way to efficiently reduce the root case of energy that can contribute to the growth of nuisances. Once all nuisances are in control and eradicated allowing for ammonia to raise again or dose it separately will contribute to the growth of coral as all other photosynthetic organisms that used to compete for it are now off the system.
The idea comes from biofloc technology were carbohydrates are used in aquaculture to reduce ammonia and increase extra feed for the organisms being cultured from the uneaten food and fish waste with this form of carbon. I’ve shared the link to one of the studies in the first post.

Thank you! This is a very helpful explanation. I'm onboard to try it.