The Butterfly Lover's Thread

[Gumbies R Us]

Only Day 2 in my tank, but i inherited these yellow long nose butterflies from a fellow reefer who had to decommission his tank. They've been with him for 3 years as a pair and are taking pellets. That being said, haven't seen them eat pellets in my tank, just mysis and other frozen foods.

Glad you were able to get them! Hope they do great for you!

 

[56longroof]

Milletseed and recently acquired Copperband.

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Well, I haven't been on in a while. After a major power outage and generator fail last winter I almost gave up on the hobby. Kind of just kept things running with food and water changes, hadn't added anything new. Got really depressed about the tank and decided it was either gonna be revamped or it was gonna be replaced by more dart frogs (which all survived the outage no problem).

Doing a total revamp on my 240 gallon. Only fish remaining is the 12" maculosus angel. I've decided it's going to be a primarily butterfly display, with angels and some chromis/anthias/wrasses as well for dithers and fillers. Started my small quarantine for some of the non-butterflies (rock beauty angel, coral beauty angel, linespot flasher wrasse, yellowfin flasher wrasse). Started a bigger quarantine for butterflies.

Got the first batch of butterflies in quarantine. Quarantine is a 50 gallon tank with established live rock from the display and sump of my 240 gallon. Lots of goodies to graze off the rockwork, and the butterflies are already picking. I am adding microbacter7 daily, and started tonight with RallyPro. Plan is to start Cupramine and Nitrofurazone this weekend. Want to give them a day or 2 to settle first.

Here are today's new additions.
2x Chaetodon adiergastos
2x Chaetodon auriga
1X Chaetodon punctatofasciatus
1x Chaetodon rafflesi
1x Chaetodon trifasciatus

Tomorrow I have the following coming.
1x Chaetodon mertensii
2x Chaetodon pelewensis

Here are some pics

 

[Louis Z]

Awesome. How do the same species pairs do with each other . ? I see aggression between each species if more than one of its kind is in the tank . I am just starting with butterflyfish. I always steered clear thinking they were delicate . I was focusing on CBB and getting ready for one . I have 10 gal aptasia tank . Had frozen bloodworms and mysis and clams . Saw some months earlier that looked really good . But I passed until I read up on them and prepped for them. They sold and that’s when I started to prepare . So a new batch of CBB became available at another LFS . But these were not as good as the earlier CBB . I saw other species in better condition so I bought those instead. I needed some to experiment with . So blackbacked we’re easy because they were eating from the get go . The Pakistani white collar was a bit more picky . Of the two I purchased one did not last more than 48 hours. The pakastani was only interested in bloodworms skipping mysis and clams for about two weeks . So I would scrape aptasia off and feed , the white collar didn’t let it have a chance to drop . Having aptasia tank is a must if wanting to acclimate butterflyfish . So I kept with mysis because the blackbacked were eating it . Now the white collar now eats it . Today I popped in some cracked open blue crab claw . The white collar went to town on it . . After holidays I will try harder to acquire blackworms and grindal worms . . Once I have those I will try for CBB. I write this because this info is so important in trying to acclimate butterfly species, especially for those aquarists that have never kept any . I learned quite a bit because of old posts . The last thing I will try is buying live mussels and popping them open .

 

[Fishfreak2009]

I've usually only done single specimens of each species. Some are more sociable, but generally, one per species unless paired in the wild. This is my attempt to pair some long-term, going with fish that have already been together at the retailer. If they do fight down the road, I have other tanks I can split them apart in if necessary.

Most butterflies don't need blackworms or grindal worms. The majority are corallivores, and will wean over better on frozen foods mashed into coral skeletons, or clam on the half shell. Chelmon, and Forcipiger are exceptions to this, as they feed on mostly small worms.

 

[Louis Z]

 

[Louis Z]

So next question I have is there a substitute food for those that are corallivores . I also plan on getting pulsing Xenia for I have seen reports of some species eating them .

 

[Fishfreak2009]

So next question I have is there a substitute food for those that are corallivores . I also plan on getting pulsing Xenia for I have seen reports of some species eating them .

They seem to do ok on gel based foods mashed into coral skeletons, and clam on the half shell, so long as they're willing to eat them.

 

[Tonycass12]

Yellow long nose is the star of my bigger sps display. Eats everything i put into the tank. Ive had him for over 2 years now

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Interesting note. Juvenile Chaetodon trifasciatus seems to function at least facultatively as a cleaner fish. I have watched Chaetodon auriga, Chaetodon mertensii, and Chaetodon adiergastos pose for it to pick at them in my quarantine. The trifasciatus and the rafflesi are the smallest butterflies in the tank.

On that same note, it seems to really harass fish that are not doing well/have passed. One of the C. adiergastos that came in did not do well and passed within 48 hrs. I had to separate it for the last 12 hours, as the trifasciatus began relentlessly following it while it did not do wel, taking bites of mucus, fins, and scales, and consuming them. It does not seem to bother healthy fish at all. The punctatofasciatus also died overnight the first night, and I found the trifasciatius actively consuming the corpse the next morning.

Here is a quick video, showing the trifasciatus taking a bite of fresh oyster. It feeds pretty readily, but only takes 1 bite per site, before moving to the next piece of shell with meat or rock with algae/food mashed into it. It makes rounds, going from feeding station to feeding station.

Also adding a video showing the trifasciatus pick at the rafflesi. Rafflesi doesn't run away, but spreads its fins and stays in position for the trifasciatus. Goes on to feed on the oyster after the video ends.

Also want to note, these guys are currently getting treated with cupramine, nitrofurazone, acriflavine, and have had 1 treatment of praziquantel. Even with that, all but the adiergastos are feeding, which that fish developed red streaks in the rostrum overnight and the other 2 fish from the same vendor (another adiergastos and a punctatofasciatus) passed within 36 hrs of arrival).

 

[Louis Z]

Are you QT/ treating all the butterflyfish in one tank regardless of what vendor they originated from. I am co qt 2species together from the same LFS . They were on the same system when purchased

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Are you QT/ treating all the butterflyfish in one tank regardless of what vendor they originated from. I am co qt 2species together from the same LFS . They were on the same system when purchased

This batch yes. I set it up specifically for these fish. If any had shown obvious signs of infectious diseases before acclimation I would have put them in a separate quarantine by themselves. There are also 4xl black axil chromis I picked up locally in here to act as dithers.

I have another quarantine currently set up with all locally acquired fish. 1 purple tang, 1 rock beauty angel, 1 coral beauty angel, 2 different flasher wrasses, 2 banggai cardinals, and 3 staghorn damsels. They're running through the same treatment protocol.

 

[Louis Z]

I have some mollies that I was going to use as dithers and then when finished I was going acclimate to freshwater again and then on to a brackish environment ready for the next QT . I don’t know if that is sound judgement . I just wanted to be able to recycle them after being in with newly acquired SW fish . Just ideas tossing in my head . Cause I do think that the over aggressive eating C. Melannotus allowed the timid C. Collare to start eating

 

[Fishfreak2009]

I have some mollies that I was going to use as dithers and then when finished I was going acclimate to freshwater again and then on to a brackish environment ready for the next QT . I don’t know if that is sound judgement . I just wanted to be able to recycle them after being in with newly acquired SW fish . Just ideas tossing in my head . Cause I do think that the over aggressive eating C. Melannotus allowed the timid C. Collare to start eating

I've done mollies before and they work well, just don't plan on any for my current systems.

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Gonna update my group of butterflies.

Violet Aquarium: Punctatofasciatus x1 and Adiergastos x2 - all 3 dead within 72 hours.

Petco: Pelewensis x2, Mertensii x1. 1 Pelewensis came almost dead in a bag that leaked. No air, reeked of ammonia, 1/2" of water. It died within 48 hours. Other Pelewensis and Mertensii are doing great, readily feeding.

Reef Beauties: Auriga x2, Rafflesi x1, Trifasciatus x1. All arrived in great shape and continue to do well. Even the melon eats well on frozen!

 

[Fishfreak2009]

So anyone in here tried keeping butterflies with larger host anemone species?

Debating on trying to put some anemones in my display. Plan would be larger sized anemones (H. crispa and E. quadricolor), and a pair of clarkii clowns to guard them. I really have a feeling that they'll probably do fine, especially with the clowns hosting them. Butterflies seem to go after small polyps etc in my experience, not the larger things.

 

[Fishfreak2009]

For those looking at butterflies online:

To update on my group of 10 I ordered online from 3 different vendors and received 12/18/25.

Petco.com:
Chaetodon pelewensis x2
Chaetodon mertensii x1

1 of the pelewensis died within 48 hrs. Came in a bag that had leaked, with maybe 1/2" of ammonia smelling water that was ice cold. The other 2 are still doing very well, eating frozen mysis, clam, and starting to pick at small NLS pellets.

Violetaquarium.com:
Chaetodon adiergastos x2
Chaetodon punctatofasciatus x1

Fish came with nipped fins and a few missing scales. Punctatofasciatus died overnight, both adiergastos rapidly lost scales and had some sort of bacterial infection that killed them within 72 hrs.

Reefbeauties.com:
Chaetodon auriga x2
Chaetodon trifasciatus x1
Chaetodon rafflesi x1

All fish arrived in pretty good shape. Rafflesi developed cloudy eyes and passed 4 days after arrival. Rafflesi had flukes drop off in a freshwater bath 24 hrs after arrival. Trifasciatus passed last night. It picked at fresh oyster and small amounts of mysis, but withered away since arrival. At this point, unless I find one greedily feeding, I'm done attempting obligate corallivores.

So of 10 fish, I'm down to 4. I'm going to stick with buying my fish locally from here on out.

I've gotten 20+ fish locally from 3 different shops in the last couple weeks and had 0 losses.

 

[Louis Z]

Fish freak . I am just saying my thoughts on what I do when I purchase fish , . Yes I prefer to purchase locally so I see what I am buying . Glad that you are switching to that method . I also only qt in one tank all fish form one lfs . I never mix different LFS fish together in the same Qt . If I do buy from different LFS they go in different tanks . I only Qt a few fish at a time . Never more than I can handle . Max 5 of same species or max 3 of different species in the same tank . Never more than two QT tanks going at the same time cause they are to much work and stress on me . I hope you find your balance .

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Fish freak . I am just saying my thoughts on what I do when I purchase fish , . Yes I prefer to purchase locally so I see what I am buying . Glad that you are switching to that method . I also only qt in one tank all fish form one lfs . I never mix different LFS fish together in the same Qt . If I do buy from different LFS they go in different tanks . I only Qt a few fish at a time . Never more than I can handle . Max 5 of same species or max 3 of different species in the same tank . Never more than two QT tanks going at the same time cause they are to much work and stress on me . I hope you find your balance .

Yeah, I usually run 3 to 4 quarantine tanks at a time and do batches. I normally will mix stuff between different vendors as long as they initially appear relatively healthy, as I've gotten the big 3 (ich, velvet, flukes) from all my local shops at one point or another. Everyone goes through the same prophylactic meds whether they show signs of disease or not in order to go in the display.

Doing batches of fish like that allows me to add multiple fish simultaneously, helping mitigate aggression on the newcomers and helping the fish in quarantine adjust better to captivity. Keeping a batch of chromis with butterflies and a tang, or fairy wrasses with more peaceful damsels and an angel or 2 in quarantine helps calm the butterflies/angels/wrasses, since the damsels and chromis act as dithers and make them feel safe enough to swim around and come out to eat.

On that same note, what size is your quarantine you use? I am currently running a 20 gallon and a 50 gallon, and have a 75 gallon, 2x 100 gallon stock tanks, and a 150 gallon stock tank I can use at any time, and keep cycled rock to add to those on hand for when I do decide to do larger batches or quarantine larger sized fish.

Most fish are pretty easy to quarantine honestly, as long as you get stock in relatively good condition to start with. With the fish I lost from the online vendors, one had some pretty severe ammonia burn and O2 deprivation from the bag leaking, 1 was an obligate corallivore, 1 had velvet, and one vendor shipped fish with flukes, velvet, and pretty bad ammonia burn. Pretty sure those same fish had been beat up by other tankmates at the same vendor as well before being shipped, just based off the small tears in the fins and missing scales on arrival.

I don't consider that a failure on my part by any means. I've quarantined plenty of fish mixed before without issue. Tiles, butterflies, moorish idol, angels, leopard wrasses, heck, even mandarin dragonets went through cupramine, acriflavine, praziquantel, and formalin baths and did just fine when done properly.

My post was purely to show people that buying butterflies online is probably not the best option, and to buy locally if possible. Unfortunately many of the butterflies I like are unavailable locally, and none of my LFS seem to be able to get them in. Half the time, they tell me it came in, I get there, and it's a totally different species of butterfly, or it's mostly dead and they still try to pawn it off on you before it dies since they ordered it for you, instead of taking it up with their wholesaler who sent them a sick fish and demanding credit for unhealthy livestock.

Also want to add that I almost always shop locally, and hadn't bought any live fish online in a while, but had seem some pretty good reviews and gave it a shot. Ended up just as disappointed as last time I tried ordering online from supposedly highly reputable and highly recommended vendors. It's funny, my inverts I buy online always do well (thank you reefcleaners.com and reeftopia.com ) and the delicate poison dart frogs I buy over the internet do fantastic (I keep 40+ different varieties of poison dart frog and small tropical tree frogs as well), but most fish I've bought online have done quite poorly and are in much worse shape compared to anything I buy locally.

 

[Louis Z]

On that same note, what size is your quarantine you use?

I have multitude 10 gal for gobies . 20 long or tall depending upon the characteristics of the fish . 40gal for larger fish . 75 for larger tangs but I often don’t fill it all the way to the top