Thinking of doing Clownfish harem and anemone tank

[Anthony Scholfield]

Since im on this journey presently i believe this can be done with success, but we will see i guess. Soooo many naysayers haha ;P No worries though.

Things i believe to be key are getting all aqua-cultured clowns as juveniles and adding them at the same time.

Have the anemones settled in the tank before the clowns go in.

Skip the multitude of BTA's and go straight for the H. magnifica anemones, several of them. As @D-Nak suggested, the more habitat the better.

Feed well and often.

Do your research, like really! This is a serious endeavor that is a calculated risk type situation so be prepared for things to go south. All fish are different in temperment, even within species. You may get a group that works well together or you may not.

Whatever you choose, good luck. Here to help if ya need or want it. Knowing is half the battle!

 

[fcmatt]

Since im on this journey presently i believe this can be done with success, but we will see i guess. Soooo many naysayers haha ;P No worries though.

Things i believe to be key are getting all aqua-cultured clowns as juveniles and adding them at the same time.

Have the anemones settled in the tank before the clowns go in.

Skip the multitude of BTA's and go straight for the H. magnifica anemones, several of them. As @D-Nak suggested, the more habitat the better.

Feed well and often.

Do your research, like really! This is a serious endeavor that is a calculated risk type situation so be prepared for things to go south. All fish are different in temperment, even within species. You may get a group that works well together or you may not.

Whatever you choose, good luck. Here to help if ya need or want it. Knowing is half the battle!

Are you basically just repeating what you have read online what might make for a possible positive outcome? How long has your experiment going on? 6 months? a year?

The naysayers are basically saying this because we can pull up posts on reefcentral from 15 years ago of this being tried and failing. Again and again, over a longer period of time, it fails. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1259398

This guy was not a newb either.

"I have to confess...I did find one on the floor and I've only been able to of kinda count 20 to 25 for awhile now...."

"Trying to count clowns. The most I see is 21 today."

"I added enough so my Perc count is probably 27 again."

"Good news and bad news. Good news is there are still 13 clowns"

As time went on it appears the thread creator kept adding more clowns.. trying diff things.. and after 15 years of the tank being up it was mostly dead.

So we have had people trying this for ages. BRS I felt did not provide decent info as anything truly negative has to be kept hush hush because they use it as a marketing tool. Most others just disappear with their threads. Frankly I feel a lot of the old school people really do not even care to comment anymore as it gets really old. People are going to do what they want and we all learn in different ways.

So to summarize what you said that might make it work has been tried and it really does not work long term. What else can we modify to make it work to be more optimistic? I would have to read up to figure out what type of clown lives in nature close together for sure to start. As in multiples in the same anemone as mature fish or very very close together in patches...

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

Are you basically just repeating what you have read online what might make for a possible positive outcome? How long has your experiment going on? 6 months? a year?

The naysayers are basically saying this because we can pull up posts on reefcentral from 15 years ago of this being tried and failing. Again and again, over a longer period of time, it fails. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1259398

This guy was not a newb either.

"I have to confess...I did find one on the floor and I've only been able to of kinda count 20 to 25 for awhile now...."

"Trying to count clowns. The most I see is 21 today."

"I added enough so my Perc count is probably 27 again."

"Good news and bad news. Good news is there are still 13 clowns"

As time went on it appears the thread creator kept adding more clowns.. trying diff things.. and after 15 years of the tank being up it was mostly dead.

So we have had people trying this for ages. BRS I felt did not provide decent info as anything truly negative has to be kept hush hush because they use it as a marketing tool. Most others just disappear with their threads. Frankly I feel a lot of the old school people really do not even care to comment anymore as it gets really old. People are going to do what they want and we all learn in different ways.

So to summarize what you said that might make it work has been tried and it really does not work long term. What else can we modify to make it work to be more optimistic? I would have to read up to figure out what type of clown lives in nature close together for sure to start. As in multiples in the same anemone as mature fish or very very close together in patches...

No, i tend not to reguritate things i find online, it can be destructive. I try to comment from my experience and what im doing. Tanks been going over a year.

I get it, your passionate but frankly i dont care about 15 years ago. 15yrs ago we didnt keep half the things we keep today in glass boxes. Ive yet to hear from someone that did all the things i am trying. Everything you quoted was about missing clowns. Nothing about what the individuals actually did or did not do. BRS used all BTAs and i believe that isnt the best course of action as that isnt the best natural host for them in my estimation.

Im not giving anyone permission to do this or am i saying it will be successful, but i believe it isnt impossible. Im giving my experience and thoughts with caution. Its up to the user to decide.

I challenge you to widen your view and perspective to at least give a fair response, looking at it with all angles. Maybe you are but i dont see that here. Please dont take offense, im not intending it that way.

 

[fcmatt]

Well ignore people who have posted here and other places about this topic and have kept clowns for decades at your own peril I guess. I had my first clown fish when under gravel filters were a thing. Others go back further.

Take melev for example. He picked 11 skunks and plopped them in a 400 gallon tank. A less aggressive choice. Unsure if wild or not. But how many are trying this with a 400 gallon tank? Very very few. I think he went about 4-5 years before a major change took place. I am not sure if they are all together still but as of last year I know he still had all 11 according to his posts. Not many go all in like he does with a tank size that has that much space. Most plop 10-20 clowns in less then 100 gallons with predictable results over time...

 

[eagerreefer]

Yes. Many of us are aware of a few possible sucess stories but the sheer majority fail. Listen carefully to the video. Notice how a "single" clown was removed. How they talk about aggression. How this video is a marketing tool and not a scientific experiment with documented results we can read about. Others ask more pointed questions in a brs thread here on this very forum when they posted the video and it was ignored. The video has clips from different time stages of the tank system. When you see the more mature larger clowns do you see 30ish fish??? What happened? Where can I read in detail what happened online with the fish count? Why did they end up taking out the fish and spreading them around their office?

Why is it that almost all harem owners post and brag and then a couple of years later go completely quiet? 2 to 4 years is about the right amount of time to have fully mature and bigger clowns finally decide to kick *** and take names in a tank.

If you want to try you better have something new to attempt because what was tried in the past ain't working long term.

On top of that we probably need to define success because anyone can throw 20 clowns in a tank and last a year or two especially if babies. But can those 20 fish all live past 4 years? Doubtful. If you have 8 left after 5 years is that success? That is the issue at hand here. Success for fish like clowns means keeping them alive for 10 plus years assuming no major event like a long power outage, failed tank, disease due to additions, etc.. they can live a really long time!

So basically the temptation to try it is that clowns and anemones are wicked cool. More is better from an enjoyment stand point early on. Over time though it gets depressing finding them missing or on the floor.

I found it suspicious they took it down too, they have so many coral focused tanks, why take down such a unique tank, unless it wasn't working?

 

[Goaway]

Well ignore people who have posted here and other places about this topic and have kept clowns for decades at your own peril I guess. I had my first clown fish when under gravel filters were a thing. Others go back further.

Take melev for example. He picked 11 skunks and plopped them in a 400 gallon tank. A less aggressive choice. Unsure if wild or not. But how many are trying this with a 400 gallon tank? Very very few. I think he went about 4-5 years before a major change took place. I am not sure if they are all together still but as of last year I know he still had all 11 according to his posts. Not many go all in like he does with a tank size that has that much space. Most plop 10-20 clowns in less then 100 gallons with predictable results over time...

I would like to add a pair of clowns need about 20g aquarium. Now, If you devoted 20g per clown fish. Any denominate female clown may decide she wants an entire tank. The larger the tank, may stop her from search and destroy. Wasting too much energy searching.

But to those who want to try a harem, Its like fcmatt stated. In about 2 to 3 years, you'll get your answer. You are not going to change a female clowns thought process. They all have their own breeding tanks. From what I have seen, I never seen a breeder with 2 pairs in the same aquarium. You really have to know much territory each clown will want. It's in their genetics and we have not bred this out of them.

 

[D-Nak]

Well ignore people who have posted here and other places about this topic and have kept clowns for decades at your own peril I guess. I had my first clown fish when under gravel filters were a thing. Others go back further.

Take melev for example. He picked 11 skunks and plopped them in a 400 gallon tank. A less aggressive choice. Unsure if wild or not. But how many are trying this with a 400 gallon tank? Very very few. I think he went about 4-5 years before a major change took place. I am not sure if they are all together still but as of last year I know he still had all 11 according to his posts. Not many go all in like he does with a tank size that has that much space. Most plop 10-20 clowns in less then 100 gallons with predictable results over time...

A lot has changed in the past 15 years, and one of the most significant breakthroughs came 2013 when @OrionN developed the protocol for treating anemones. Prior to that, natural host anemones for percula and ocellaris (namely H. magnifica and S. gigantea) in our reef tanks were extremely rare. I could probably count the number of gigantea in captivity with my hands.

Now I'm able to keep multiple gigantea in a 60 gallon tank. It's literally wall-to-wall carpet:

In other words, it's not the size of the tank, but what's in the tank that makes a difference (you really need those host anemones, and not one, but multiple anemones).

Here's what it looked like when I first set it up:

You can see that there are a lot of places for the clownfish to hide. They move between anemones, oftentimes underneath the skirt. When they get scared, they dive into the anemones, so I don't even feel the need to keep the tank covered.

Is it possible to have a harem tank? Absolutely.

Do you need to follow a specific set of guidelines? Absolutely.

Is it something that a beginner should try? Unfortunately, no. Acquiring and QTing natural host anemones is the hard part.

Will it work with BTAs? Yes, but I think to a lesser extent. My experience with BTAs and both magnifica and gigantea lead me to think that clownfish know the difference. They tend to stay within the mag and gig and will only come out for food. With BTAs, I don't think they have as tight of a bond. When a natural host anemone is in a tank with a BTA, the clownfish completely ignore the BTA.

So again, in short, yes, it can be done. But you really do need to follow the guidelines previously laid out for any sort of success. If you can't, don't try it.

 

[Junk]

A lot has changed in the past 15 years, and one of the most significant breakthroughs came 2013 when @OrionN developed the protocol for treating anemones. Prior to that, natural host anemones for percula and ocellaris (namely H. magnifica and S. gigantea) in our reef tanks were extremely rare. I could probably count the number of gigantea in captivity with my hands.

Now I'm able to keep multiple gigantea in a 60 gallon tank. It's literally wall-to-wall carpet:

In other words, it's not the size of the tank, but what's in the tank that makes a difference (you really need those host anemones, and not one, but multiple anemones).

Here's what it looked like when I first set it up:

You can see that there are a lot of places for the clownfish to hide. They move between anemones, oftentimes underneath the skirt. When they get scared, they dive into the anemones, so I don't even feel the need to keep the tank covered.

Is it possible to have a harem tank? Absolutely.

Do you need to follow a specific set of guidelines? Absolutely.

Is it something that a beginner should try? Unfortunately, no. Acquiring and QTing natural host anemones is the hard part.

Will it work with BTAs? Yes, but I think to a lesser extent. My experience with BTAs and both magnifica and gigantea lead me to think that clownfish know the difference. They tend to stay within the mag and gig and will only come out for food. With BTAs, I don't think they have as tight of a bond. When a natural host anemone is in a tank with a BTA, the clownfish completely ignore the BTA.

So again, in short, yes, it can be done. But you really do need to follow the guidelines previously laid out for any sort of success. If you can't, don't try it.

Would you ever consider trying this if you already had a few other fish in the tank like a yellow tang and a royal gamma?

 

[Hooz]

One of our LFS has a clown harem tank that's been up and running for quite a while now. It's basically a 150g (standard) reef tank with 3 dozen clowns. I think the key to their success is that they have auto feeders set to feed about every 15 minutes through the day. It's kind of cool to watch the whole harem swarm the feeders when they kick in.

But I think that's their key to success... keeping them all distracted.