Timed air blasting of reef?

[Triggerjay]

I just finished a round of water tests. I figure this should be a pretty good baseline to see any objective differences with the tests I have on hand. All tests were done with NYOS test kits except PH and nitrates which were API tests. I suspect that if there are objective differences vs before and after that it may be an increase in PH and/or a drop in nitrates. I think the extra aeration will cause the nitrates to go up the water column and into the sump for the skimmer to eat (just a guess).

 

[Triggerjay]

Had to go out of town for a family emergency. Just got home. Air has been running 8 hours a night for the last two days. Skimmate has doubled as I used to go four days to a full cup, and after two days the cup was full. I didn't run all the tests, just the ones I thought might change. Nitrates stayed the same, but ph increased to 8.4.

 

[Triggerjay]

Randy, is it possible that the added airation could be driving further sulfate oxidation resulting in the corals showing a positive response? I live in Florida and some here are still on well water. The well water here has a terrible sulfer smell to it and most well systems have a spraybar to fill the water holding tank which aerates the water. This greatly reduces the odor the water contains. Could this reduction be responsible (or partially) for the positive response that I, and others are experiencing using this "air blast" method?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, is it possible that the added airation could be driving further sulfate oxidation resulting in the corals showing a positive response? I live in Florida and some here are still on well water. The well water here has a terrible sulfer smell to it and most well systems have a spraybar to fill the water holding tank which aerates the water. This greatly reduces the odor the water contains. Could this reduction be responsible (or partially) for the positive response that I, and others are experiencing using this "air blast" method?

Sulfate (SO4--) is already fully oxidized, so nothing further can happen to it by oxidation.

When organics are being metabolized in anaerobic conditions, bacteria strip the sulfate in seawater to make hydrogen sulfide (H2S).

 

[Triggerjay]

"C. Maximize aeration. A high oxygen level drives hydrogen sulfide oxidation, and high aeration will drive some off as volatile H2S gas."
- from Hydrogen Sulfide and the Reef Aquarium
I must be misunderstanding this part of your article. I guess I should have specified H2S in my above post, instead of simply implying "sulfer" as H2S is hydrogen and sulfer. wouldn't this still drive off sulfer, along with the hydrogen it is bonded to?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, I read your post as suggesting sulfate oxidation, not sulfate formation from hydrogen sulfide. " airation could be driving further sulfate oxidation"

Unless you have a hydrogen sulfide problem in the water column, I don't think this is an issue, and I'm not sure how the bubbles will impact it much unless the tank was not well aerated to begin with.

 

[cu455]

I am a fan of HOB filters. When I place coral, either it be sps or softies, under the HOB waterfall I get much better polyp extension and growth. I always credited it to the corals eating pods and plankton falling from my HOB filter. I guess it is possible the air bubbles are the cause of it.

 

[chefjpaul]

The Long Island Aquarium "surges" his system about every 8-9 minutes. (@11:30 in video)

 

[Larry L]

When I place coral, either it be sps or softies, under the HOB waterfall I get much better polyp extension and growth. I always credited it to the corals eating pods and plankton falling from my HOB filter. I guess it is possible the air bubbles are the cause of it.

Maybe it's that, or maybe they just like having more flow.

 

[Cory]

I am a fan of HOB filters. When I place coral, either it be sps or softies, under the HOB waterfall I get much better polyp extension and growth. I always credited it to the corals eating pods and plankton falling from my HOB filter. I guess it is possible the air bubbles are the cause of it.

Or corals confuse air bubbles with particulates

 

[Cory]

@Randy Holmes-Farley
Lots of people say that these microbubbles degass Co2. I cant think of any real reason this would happen, unless the airline was ran outside.

Is it possible to raise ph this way just by using air from inside the house? What mechanisms are there?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley
Lots of people say that these microbubbles degass Co2. I cant think of any real reason this would happen, unless the airline was ran outside.

Is it possible to raise ph this way just by using air from inside the house? What mechanisms are there?

It simple encourages more gas exchange. Whether that adds or removes CO2 depends entirely on whether the tank has a surplus or a deficit relative to the air being used to make the bubbles. It is not any special sort of gas exchange, just more of it.

 

[Cory]

It simple encourages more gas exchange. Whether that adds or removes CO2 depends entirely on whether the tank has a surplus or a deficit relative to the air being used to make the bubbles. It is not any special sort of gas exchange, just more of it.

Would you try this in your tank? What reasons do you have to do it or not to do it?

 

[brandon429]

There was once an awesome aquaculture company out of FL called aquatic ecosystems

They were giants, limnologists and large body water managers and aqua production wholesale I'm talking every know lab gear, biological specimen, pump arrangement for multi million gallon pond/lake management and gigantic air diffuser systems they are no longer in business I think

They even sold wholesale size bags of thousands of various fry for lake and pond stocking this place would have been my dream job

But the relevancy was their little tech talking points

They took the science of air injection to the max and in those points it said that laminar up flow turnover is more efficient than underwater pumps for this rationale:
Given pgp like Randy mentioned earlier (the majority of cases in favor of tank off gassing/vs ingress co2 where sinked organics and associated microbial digestion are co2 emitters along with the pelagic animals) and the fact the exchange is at the surface, circular eddies from pumps are wasting time in small increments compared to vertical up flow from rising air...they also calculated the energy commands of giant pump systems for lake limnology vs air systems vs degassing co2 for the purpose of fish kill prevention and the air wins out on crazy calculated stuff like kWh to volume of lake turnover it was all fascinating to read. Our tanks are so much more shallow that I'm sure the difference is negligible but I'm pretty sure even scaled down the efficiency is still mathematically there. I can literally see laminar up flow in my ReefBowl it's an amazing mini model.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Would you try this in your tank? What reasons do you have to do it or not to do it?

I worry about salt spray getting onto electronics like lights above and near the tank. I don't really have much concern about in tank effects, except for possible bubbles accumulating in sponges.

Together these things would make me not do it, at least until someone demonstrates these are unfounded concerns.

 

[DMan]

Salt spray was the first thing that popped into my head. But what about the fishes. Will the bubbles stress them out or worse.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Salt spray was the first thing that popped into my head. But what about the fishes. Will the bubbles stress them out or worse.

If they are fish who might live near the surf zone, they would presumably not have a problem with bubbles.

 

[Triggerjay]

Since starting this thread I have upgraded my air pump to a luft pump for more output (so much in fact the volume of air stopped my return pump). I am currently working on a way to inject the air after the pump in the return line somewhere. The tank I was running it on I cracked and had to replace. While I was at it, I opted for a larger tank. This happened about two weeks ago and I am waiting for things to settle back down from the tank change before proceeding further.

 

[WRXgucci]

I have my return pump section in my sump a bit too low and before it calls for a top off it grabs a bit of air.. Not planned but I don't mind it.

 

[ReefLEDLights]

I'm Skeptical to say the least. 99% of our fixture failures are due to salt creep and salt damage. Adding a bunch of bubbles only increases the salt air detrimental to any thing subject to corrosion.

Proper Flow...I mean FLOW and Excellent skimming should do the same.

This could also damage sponges and sea squirts in the cryptic zones as air in contact with their tissue will cause tissue necrosis...

Just food for thought

Bill