trace elements?

[Salty Pickle]

I have a 25 lagoon (approx. 21 gal. actual water vol.) that is packed with SPS, 28 to be exact. They all started out as 1/2 to 3/4 inch frags which contributed to my shortsightedness, but I was bit by the bug. As the corals have continued to grow over the past 7 months the colors have looked spectacular. Recently I have begun to lose colors on virtually every coral, good news is there is no tissue damage on any of the corals, polyp extension is great, growth is still steady.

My parameter have been stable for the entire time:
Ca = 400-440 Hanna
Alk = 8.4-8.7 Hanna
Salinity = 1.025-1.026
Temp = 78.5-79.0 Apex controlled
pH = 8.0-8.3 Apex probe
Mg = 1340-1380 Salifert
NH3, NO3, NO2, PO4 = 0 Salifert

My lighting schedule has not changed and I change 1 t5 bulb every 2-3 months so i don't have any significant light diminishment over time. My flow has not changed at all and the MP10 is working as it should. I perform weekly water changes with Kent salt mix. I am currently dosing 18 ml a day to maintain ALK and Ca using 2 part using Bightwells, I also dose Mg.

Sorry for the long intro but I figured that at some point in the discussion I would be asked all these questions. I am trying to figure out why everything is beginning to brown out.

Is it possible that the corals are consuming all the other elements in the water to the point that weekly water changes are no longer sufficient in replacing them?

If yes, what should I start dosing to bring the colors back?

I have a Kamoer 3 channel doser along with the 4 channel doser which is a total of 7 pumps so adding things to the dosing regiment is not an issue. I just don't know if its necessary and if so what?

There is also the possibility I am completely off base. Before I digress any further, I will end here.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would not assume it is a trace element issue, but it might be.

Are the corals really browning (as you mentioned) or looking pale? In some senses, those are opposites with opposite causes.

It is possible they are starving and need more N and P in the water. 0 ppm nitrate is not generally best.

 

[Salty Pickle]

the red planet is now a pale pink planet. the dark blues and purples are now sky blue and Light pastel purple. My ultimates tricolor, JF shock tart, TEC rising phoenix, PC rainbow, Rommels watermelon, and RMF superman stag (to name a few) are a lovely shade of brown. there is still a very small amount of color at the tips but its pastel and on the way out. If they are starving, should i feed more and skim less?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You can do that, or you can dose nitrate and possibly phosphate. Many folks have had good success dosing.

 

[Salty Pickle]

thank you for pointing me in a direction. time to do some research now.

 

[Myka]

If you're serious about SPS, I'd suggest the Hanna ULR phosphorus checker for phosphate. It reads in ppb, accurate to 5 ppb or 0.015 ppm. I'd agree that with pale corals it's probably low nutrient issue, but I wouldn't be dosing any PO4 without the ULR checker. I think if both PO4 and NO3 are "undetectable" (not to be confused with " absolute zero") that dosing both is better than only dosing one.

 

[Salty Pickle]

is PO4 and NO3 replenished with water changes? just a question of curiosity.

 

[DamianOZ]

My advice,
Check potassium levels, if lower than 360ppm, start dosing to maintain 380 to 400ppm
Feed more, I like reef pearls, do not skim less. Still aim for undetectable nutrients, but feed to colour

I prefer < 7dKh alkalinity, but your levels shouldn't be an issue

 

[jvb89]

I would keep as is a try amino's.(red sea energy A&B, seachem fuel, Acropower). All get pretty good reviews, especially with tanks that are nutrient limited.

 

[twilliard]

is PO4 and NO3 replenished with water changes? just a question of curiosity.

No water changes reduce no3 and po4
People employ many methods to either raise or lower the DOC'S in water
Here is a better understanding of this
http://www.aquascapingworld.com/magazine/May08/Dissolved-Organic-Compounds-Explained.html
Now what does no3 and po4 contribute to aquaria when in controlled manner
The ability to increase Photosynthesis and growth

https://www.asm.org/index.php/educa...trate-and-phosphate-levels-on-growth-of-algae

Hope this helps to have a basic understanding of zooanthelle populations

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

is PO4 and NO3 replenished with water changes? just a question of curiosity.

Not enough to be important in many tanks.

 

[JMacedo]

the red planet is now a pale pink planet. the dark blues and purples are now sky blue and Light pastel purple. My ultimates tricolor, JF shock tart, TEC rising phoenix, PC rainbow, Rommels watermelon, and RMF superman stag (to name a few) are a lovely shade of brown. there is still a very small amount of color at the tips but its pastel and on the way out. If they are starving, should i feed more and skim less?

Just my two cents:

You are a very good observer. You and your Red Planet are telling me that you are right about trace elements comsumption. DamianOZ has provide good advice as well. I would suggest to do a 50% water change to replace some of the lacking trace elements and observe for a week if there is any improvement. If there is an improvement, double the volume of water of your scheduled water changes and/or dose trace elements you can test and rely. Do not add any aminos for now.

 

[biom]

I would keep as is a try amino's.(red sea energy A&B, seachem fuel, Acropower). All get pretty good reviews, especially with tanks that are nutrient limited.

+1

My advice,
Check potassium levels, if lower than 360ppm, start dosing to maintain 380 to 400ppm
Feed more, I like reef pearls, do not skim less. Still aim for undetectable nutrients, but feed to colour
I prefer < 7dKh alkalinity, but your levels shouldn't be an issue

+1
Of course dosing of important bio-active elements (iron, iodine, molybdenum, vanadium, manganese, zinc etc) is always good because they are depleting very fast in the reef tank. (before dosing is good to make Triton ICP test just to be sure they are not elevated for some reason.)

 

[Myka]

is PO4 and NO3 replenished with water changes? just a question of curiosity.

No, if anything they should be reduced. The salt mix should not contain NO3 or PO4 except maybe in very trace amounts.

 

[jcdeng]

How much and how long of an interval do you perform water changes? At your tank size if you do 50% once a week that should give you enough trace elements along with 2 parts dosing. Along with that aminos once or twice a week with boardcast feeding should be able to give you good colors.

 

[DamianOZ]

+1

+1
Of course dosing of important bio-active elements (iron, iodine, molybdenum, vanadium, manganese, zinc etc) is always good because they are depleting very fast in the reef tank. (before dosing is good to make Triton ICP test just to be sure they are not elevated for some reason.)

I agree, dosing of many trace elements can show minor improvements to colour, glow, zoax control, etc, but are not essential. I feel its better to get it right first, then experiment with other traces.
I feel often people chase colours with trace elements, dosing N, etc only to end up asking why they have TN issues.

 

[Salty Pickle]

How much and how long of an interval do you perform water changes? At your tank size if you do 50% once a week that should give you enough trace elements along with 2 parts dosing. Along with that aminos once or twice a week with boardcast feeding should be able to give you good colors.

I do a 10 gallon water change weekly, 2-5 gallon jugs, close to 50%. I dose by hand brightwell CoralAmino once a week and follow the directions explicitly. I broadcast oyster feast once a week and feed the fish LRS fish frenzy 2x a week. stock is 1 tail spot, possum wrasse, firefish, and baby cardinal size of a quarter, and a cleaner shrimp that is a ******.

 

[Salty Pickle]

earlier tonight i moved a few rocks and found a significantly large colony of algae that was growing because of my inability to scrape the back wall in those areas. i scraped the back wall and caught the scrapings with a brine net. i left a portion of the wall un-scraped because in my mind i did not want a spike in the aquarium nutrients due to the sudden eradication of the algae. I am trying to eradicate and eliminate any potential sources of nutrient absorption and leave it for the corals. not sure if i am over thinking things but thats what i did. I will scrape the remaining algae in a week on the next water change. I have no idea if that is an appropriate course of action but it made sense to me in a logical sense. I just want to get it right. I actually feel like an ar$e when I watch my system struggle and feel an obligation to get it right. I really want my system to thrive, my satisfaction is not in the vibrant colors but in knowing i am being a good steward to the animals that live in my aquarium.

 

[Salty Pickle]

Just my two cents:

You are a very good observer. You and your Red Planet are telling me that you are right about trace elements comsumption. DamianOZ has provide good advice as well. I would suggest to do a 50% water change to replace some of the lacking trace elements and observe for a week if there is any improvement. If there is an improvement, double the volume of water of your scheduled water changes and/or dose trace elements you can test and rely. Do not add any aminos for now.

I will halt the aminos for now and see what happens with the current changes.

 

[JMacedo]

I will halt the aminos for now and see what happens with the current changes.

IMHO the dosing of aminos in a SPS tank depends on what other things we feed fish and corals and also the bioload as certain things we feed our fish and corals already contain aminos. In my case due to the three heavy feedings and the too many fish I have I am unable to dose any more aminos than the natural ones already added to the tank via the said feedings.

Even 1ml/day of aminos is too much for my 150gl SPS tank (in my signature) but in other tanks with less fish and less feedings amino acids are a good thing. I said to stop dosing aminos because it can hinder the effects of doing some bigger water changes for now.

My tank was getting depleted of trace elements that I blame on aggressive wet skimming and use of flocculants. Recently, Potassium was at 300ppm and of course other minor elements were low as well. As I don´t believe I can replace every single trace element or even test for it, I always do a couple of big water changes and then I increase my dosing of trace elements. So far, during the past few years this method has worked for me and I think it is just the normal process of a higher demand of elements as sps corals keep on growing and get more demanding.