Triton after 8 months

blacktippr · Jan 11, 2016

Try checking for pests, I had the same issue with Acros, and it was flatworms. Dip in Revive and you will see them falling off if thats your problem, also check for red bugs.

Triggreef · Jan 11, 2016

I had a similar issue (lead me to find triton) and I never was able to narrow down a cause, although many including Randy spoke about pathogenic bacteria being hard to stop once it is in your system running rampant. I had over 50 different acro at one point and slowly lost them one by one to stn/rtn over a 2 month period while alk/ca stayed quite stable. I saved about 8 or so which over a year later I still have growing plus some more I added back in.

I used the triton detox a few times toward the end when things stopped dying. Been using triton over a year now and send the occasional test. My tanks never been better, all types of corals included.

My algae growth last few months has been nil as well because I made the mistake of dumping some emerald crabs in my fuge which destroyed it.

My suggestion is run a good amount of carbon. And keep at changing it out often. Can't hurt. Stick with it and save the resilient ones. They'll be that much stronger for your next mishap.

And @twilliard is a good dude to have helping you out.

Oceansize · Jan 12, 2016

cope413 said:
If you have chaeto growth - or any algae growth - then it's safe to say you're not limited in either Nitrate or Phosphate. There's at least enough present to support the growth.

I've had tanks that show 0 nitrates and 0 phosphate, but still have algae growth. The algae in my tank wasn't magical and able to grow without N or P. It's just that my test methods weren't able to show the true numbers of the tank.

I don't believe there's been any research that's shown that algae blooms can/do "encourage different, more STN-prone strain of bacteria". First, it's not even clear that STN is always caused by bacteria. Many reefers report that unstable alk/cal cause STN and bringing stability back to the system "cures" it.

Furthermore, Vibrio is one of the bacteria believed to be responsible for RTN/STN. There's no evidence to suggest that Vibrio is has any connection to increased iron or algal blooms.

If the cause of RTN/STN is discovered to be a pathogenic bacteria, it's highly unlikely to be a bacteria that also attacks macro algae. Pathogens tend to be pretty specialized and there's a pretty big difference between single-celled protozoans (zooxanthella) and macroalgae and other autotrophic algae.

Is it not true that there is a third nutrient you're not considering? Namely, carbon? I'll be the first to admit my knowledge of reef chemistry is sketchy, but I've read some fascinating articles on the possibility that ULNS systems (0 NO3, 0 PO4) with persistent algae issues are possibly due to excess carbon/iron from detritus, etc, as opposed to inaccurate test results. Some of us have been addressing algae not by going ULNS necessarily, but by employing GAC 24/7, running UV, aggressive detritus removal, and other carbon-reducing techniques. In other words, seeing carbon as more of an enemy than nitrate or phosphate. For me it's going well so far. I'm still getting just a touch of algae that needs scraping about once a week, but that's better than three times a week and my coral are in better shape than they were when all I was trying to do was knock down nitrate and phosphate.

As far as that research you haven't seen, all I'm referring to is the fact that new algae growth represents a new balance/cocktail of nutrients in the tank due to their metabolism. The metabolism of the new or increased algae affects the balance of everything, including bacteria. For example I used GFO to reduce phosphate and the green algae I was trying to get rid of disappeared within two days...BUT it was replaced a day later by an entirely different brownish algae, which persists even several weeks after removing the GFO, and the green algae is yet to return. Randy tells me this is possibly because my tank was iron -limited prior to the addition of GFO but the GFO added some iron. Obviously I upset whatever balance had been achieved and the tank did not return to that balance after removing the upsetting factor, instead I created a new environment that persists even after the removal of GFO. My parameters SEEM to be the same as before I added and then removed GFO, but now my new algae is brown instead of green. Vibrio propagation may not be connected to iron or algal blooms, but is it not possible that a change in algal populations starts a domino effect of other parameters that can eventually, in certain tanks, favor vibrio or other STN-causing bacteria?

I wouldn't think that such a bacteria would also attack macro such as chaeto, I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought the chaeto was under attack in the OP's tank. Quite the opposite in fact, it sounds like his chaeto is thriving.

djbetterly · Jan 20, 2016

New results are in

Curious where the tin is coming from.

djbetterly · Jan 20, 2016

New results are in

Curious where the tin is coming from.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 20, 2016

djbetterly said:
New results are in

Curious where the tin is coming from.

FWIW, your salinity looks to be fairly high (above 35 ppt)

How are you measuring it and what do you think it is?

Oceansize · Jan 20, 2016

Tin is found in brass. Are you using any brass fittings?

djbetterly · Jan 20, 2016

I had been traveling and my ato had run dry so it went up a bit. As far as brass goes, no I have no brass fittings any where.

djbetterly · Jan 20, 2016

Also, regarding salinity, I have a conductivity probe but I also check it manually with a refractometer every so often. Since I added a gyre to my tank I don't get an accurate reading on my probe. I shut the gyre down at night so then it gives me an accurate reading so I always look over the logs.

In reality the probes suck. I have the probe completely isolated from all other electronic cables and I still have issues since I added the gyre. I've checked for stray voltage, replaced the grounding probe, changed the placement and plug of the grounding probe and I still can't get a solid reading with the gyre on. It's very frustrating.

cope413 · Jan 21, 2016

The tin is likely from PVC. There isn't much, if any, tin in most brass plumbing, and the more pressing issue from brass, at least in a reef tank, would be the copper.

As for your salinity, $15 gets you calibration solution for a refractometer. Should last you at least a year.

My salinity probe has been relegated to emergency alarm use. It's accurate for about a month after calibrating. Then it just starts rising and decides to settle around 40-41ppt. If it moves much, I'll check with refractometer. One day I'll design and 3d print an enclosure around it to prevent light and the ensuing algae from getting on the probe, as well as other things that may be interfering with it...

Bricky · Jan 21, 2016

Have you checked the output of your doser on the alk? This can clog quite easily thus not getting any elements. Saw this happen quickly when I was dosing the Triton big 4.

Oceansize · Jan 22, 2016

cope413 said:
The tin is likely from PVC. There isn't much, if any, tin in most brass plumbing, and the more pressing issue from brass, at least in a reef tank, would be the copper.

As for your salinity, $15 gets you calibration solution for a refractometer. Should last you at least a year.

My salinity probe has been relegated to emergency alarm use. It's accurate for about a month after calibrating. Then it just starts rising and decides to settle around 40-41ppt. If it moves much, I'll check with refractometer. One day I'll design and 3d print an enclosure around it to prevent light and the ensuing algae from getting on the probe, as well as other things that may be interfering with it...

Does PVC leach tin?

cope413 · Jan 22, 2016

Yes. Tin is used as a stabilizer in the production process.

There are some other threads that this has been discussed in. It shouldn't be an issue, and if you're on the Triton system, Detox will remove it.

djbetterly · Jan 23, 2016

What is Detox?

twilliard · Jan 23, 2016

djbetterly said:
What is Detox?

Triton detox is used to remove heavy metals.
With your numbers I wouldnt worry

djbetterly · Jan 23, 2016

Even with the elevated Tin?

twilliard · Jan 23, 2016

Yup the tin number is of no high concern.
I talk a lot with the guys at UC about the trition methods.
Watch for upward trends throughout the results of your testing.
If it starts to climb then I would locate the source (usually PVC related)