Types of pods

[DirtDiggler2823]

I've been trying to learn about the different micro fauna that populate a reef, and I'm stuck on the copepods, and rotifers. I understand that I should have copepods, but I've come to learn that there are a few different types of copepods. I've also come to see that there are rotifers that are available as well, but I'm not sure of what role they play in the grand scheme of things. I hope to have a Mandarin goby at some point, and I'm looking to keep LPS and soft corals, as well as rock flower nems. My tank is cycled now, and it's about time to move the fish from QT to the DT, but I'd like to get the appropriate microfauna in place prior to moving them over.

 

[Sallstrom]

I'm not sure which copepods will survive and reproduce long term in a reef tank. Maybe some of the benthic ones perhaps?

The most common small crustaceans I see in our tanks are Gammarus and Mysids/Mysis shrimps. I think they would both be a good food source for Mandarins.

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

I'm not sure which copepods will survive and reproduce long term in a reef tank. Maybe some of the benthic ones perhaps?

The most common small crustaceans I see in our tanks are Gammarus and Mysids/Mysis shrimps. I think they would both be a good food source for Mandarins.

How do people establish copepod populations long term in their tanks then? I have a bunch of rubble in my fuge to them to hide in, but I don't know which ones to get.

 

[Celtic_Fox]

How do people establish copepod populations long term in their tanks then? I have a bunch of rubble in my fuge to them to hide in, but I don't know which ones to get.

Some people get some live rock from another hobbyist, or LFS. Others buy pods online of from a LFS.

Buying rock locally will get you types that have survived in a reef tank/LFS, and thus are likely to also do ok in your tank, but you may not know exactly which type you're getting. Buying online will answer the which type question, but each tank is different and you don't really know which species will do best in your tank. (But in general Copepods are pretty tough and survive in a good range of parameters.)

If you buy online, I suggest getting at least a three species mixture (or if you have the funds, three or more single species packages) with at least one benthic and one planktonic species. (Note - Algae Barn is a sponsor of R2R and they sell a three species mix. But there are other sellers out there and some have more species in their mixes.)

You'll usually get many more initial copepods via online or a vendor's bottle/bag from a LFS. But ether way you're going to need some time for the pod population to grow to a healthy and useful level.

Edit -
Hmmm, maybe I didn't answer your exact question... long term establishment depends on copepods living to breeding age, which is surprisingly long for such small creatures... I think it's usually around a month, depending on temperature. So you need a refugium and/or places for copepods to live that predators cannot get to (such as large porous rocks or multi layers of rubble), preferably both.

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

Some people get some live rock from another hobbyist, or LFS. Others buy pods online of from a LFS.

Buying rock locally will get you types that have survived in a reef tank/LFS, and thus are likely to also do ok in your tank, but you may not know exactly which type you're getting. Buying online will answer the which type question, but each tank is different and you don't really know which species will do best in your tank. (But in general Copepods are pretty tough and survive in a good range of parameters.)

If you buy online, I suggest getting at least a three species mixture (or if you have the funds, three or more single species packages) with at least one benthic and one planktonic species. (Note - Algae Barn is a sponsor of R2R and they sell a three species mix. But there are other sellers out there and some have more species in their mixes.)

You'll usually get many more initial copepods via online or a vendor's bottle/bag from a LFS. But ether way you're going to need some time for the pod population to grow to a healthy and useful level.

Edit -
Hmmm, maybe I didn't answer your exact question... long term establishment depends on copepods living to breeding age, which is surprisingly long for such small creatures... I think it's usually around a month, depending on temperature. So you need a refugium and/or places for copepods to live that predators cannot get to (such as large porous rocks or multi layers of rubble), preferably both.

So I should go for multiple types of copepods? Should I pursue rotifers as well? I have a refugium with rubble in it, and lots of texture on my rocks in the DT.

 

[vbrevolution]

I've also recently cycled my tank and have been using LiveAquaria's Tisbe pods however noticed my mandarin also likes the pods from https://aquariumdepot.com as well. They're expensive (on aquariumdepot) however they're bigger. Plus, it's nice when they have a BOGO sale). That being said I have been trying to grow them as well. What you're supposed to do is empty half of the pods in the main display tank and the other half down below in the sump at night however I've set up separate cultures for the pods I buy and have been feeding them to my dragonette whenever they get too smelly. Not sure this will completely alleviate the need to continuously buy pods however I have noticed I've been going through less bags.

Some hobbyists have mentioned seeding the display tank and the sump a week or two before you add your mandarin to give the pods a bit of time in order to establish a population.

The other type of pods I feed my mandarin are called Apocyclops. I think they're supposed to have more nutritional value in them than the Tisbes however they're so expensive!

 

[Celtic_Fox]

So I should go for multiple types of copepods? Should I pursue rotifers as well? I have a refugium with rubble in it, and lots of texture on my rocks in the DT.

I've read and been told rotifers don't proliferate in reef tanks... I don't remember getting a believable answer as to why... I do know most people who do feed/seed rotifers to their tanks, raise a culture in a bucket and just add rotifers to the tank whenever the culture is ready to be split. So, that might be your best option, if you end up having free time once the tank is up and running.

That being said, I added a "1 million" bag of rotifers to my tank a couple of days after a quick cycle with a combination of Dr. Tim's One and Only and Instant Ocean's Bio-Spira. I have no idea if any survived. I like to think they survived (at least a few days) because I put them in during a bacterial bloom and the next day the bloom as almost gone. (I have no idea if rotifers ate what ever was clouding the water, but the bloom was pretty thick and seemed to still be increasing, and then almost gone the next day - so I'm chalking it up to a win for the rotifers.)

Why would I add rotifers after being told they don't do well long term in a reef tank? Well,,, I knew It would be a while before adding copepods, and I had a credit at the LFS,,, so I took a chance on them at least doing well enough without any predation to be around when the copepods went in, and adding to the food available for the copepods. (My goal is to get a huge pod reasonably quickly population and get a pair of mandarins.)

 

[Sallstrom]

Are there any reef tanks with a large population of copepods(without refilling with new ones now and then)?
I'm sure it's possible some how, but I haven't seen it yet.

Live foods are great, specially copepods, but also rotifers, artemia, gammarus and mysis. All depending on what animals you want to feed. But IMO not many of these live food sources will reproduce and create a sustainable population in a reef tank.

Artemia and rotifers are mostly pelagic, swimming around often near the surface. They will be eaten, sucked into pumps, overflows, skimmers and other filters sooner or later. My guess is that's where most of the copepods will end up too. Due to pelagic life stages. But maybe there are some species that don't have pelagic stages, that stays on the substrate and can survive. Not sure.

Examples of species that will stay amongst the rocks are Gammarus(amphipod) and some kinds of mysis(mysids) shrimps. These often become large populations in reeftanks and refugiums, at least the ones I work with. I'm not sure of the exact species we have.

If you want fish that mostly eat live food, it's better to culture the food outside the tank IMO. And then add a little every day. Check culturing copepods here on the forum and you'll find some ways to do it.

 

[Mortie31]

Agree with all above, also removing any mechanical filtration you have will improve the survival chances and a good algae bed in the sump always helps as well and adding phytoplankton daily

 

[Paul B]

Here is a copepod, if you are wondering what they look like.

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

Here is a copepod, if you are wondering what they look like.

I ended up adding a bunch of different pods, but I doubled up on the trigger pods.

 

[Hermie]

But IMO not many of these live food sources will reproduce and create a sustainable population in a reef tank.
If you want fish that mostly eat live food, it's better to culture the food outside the tank IMO. And then add a little every day. Check culturing copepods here on the forum and you'll find some ways to do it.

Yeah this is great advice IMO. From what I see, most reefers won't be able to meet the dietary needs of copepod poulations that are also being consumed by mandarins because of underfeeding the tank to keep nutrient levels low. Basically, copepods need algae... whether phyto or diatoms (depending on pod species)... so the tank has to be "high nutrient" compared to what my impression is most reefers are comfortable with.

I ended up adding a bunch of different pods, but I doubled up on the trigger pods.

The problem with adding multiple species of copepods, including rotifers is that they will outcompete one another. From what I read, Apoc (Apex) pods will be outcompeted by both Tiggers and Tisbes. I am not sure if Tiggers can out compete or prey on Tisbes, but in your case, I would just go with either Tigger or Tisbe from now on, or wait a few weeks to see which ones populate more. Apex pods are supposed to be great if they are alone and can consume phyto/diatoms without competition.

 

[vbrevolution]

I wouldn't be surprised if the rotifiers get swept away into the sump/skimmer/filter bag or get depleted when you do a water change, besides from being eaten.

 

[ihavecrabs]

Are there any reef tanks with a large population of copepods(without refilling with new ones now and then)?
I'm sure it's possible some how, but I haven't seen it yet.

I know this is an old thread but I did want to respond to your question quoted above.

My sump and connected frag tank has many many copepods. What type exactly I am unsure (i’ll try and get a good visual on one once the lights go out this afternoon). Mine came in on frags most likely. I separated them the best I could before I dipped my frags . Painstaking work, let me tell you. @Paul B would be disappointed I didn’t just drop the frags in with all the life on them!

Now my main display I rarely see any even though my systems are all connected. I have chalked this up to my pod hunters (two female Blue Star Leopard Wrasses). Any pod I see in there is usually picked off pretty quickly.

In my frag tank, during the day I do not see many. My 6-line wrasse sees to that I’m sure. The fish is very fat. After lights out, the glass fills with pods. Probably 15-20 per square inch.

I feed heavy and let detritus build up in my frag system and sump and only clean half of it out every 4-6 months. System is very stable overall.

My guess is where most people go wrong is the types of copepods they purchase. Free swimming are not going to make it. Plankton eaters are not going to survive. You have to find the pods that stick to crawling around the rubble and eat the algae, detritus, and leftover food.