Uronema Marinum !!!

JohnPeck

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@Humblefish, I am brand new to R2R.
I have a 200g fish only tank. Originally, I had a few tangs, a foxface,etc. I added a yellow-tail damsel and a ocellaris clown after quarantining for 4 weeks. Not long after that one by one all my fish died. I first diagnosed that it was possibly brook from the clown or possibly velvet. I left the tank fallow for over 3 months. After that I quarantined a flame angel and a coral beauty for 8 weeks before adding to the DT. Quarantine included a fresh water methylene blue dip for at least 5 minutes and 4 weeks of CopperSafe and prazi. They were fine in the QT but both died in about 2 weeks of being in the DT (all water parameters were perfect except for nitrates were 15 ppm). I again left the DT tank fallow and again quarantined a flame angel, a coral beauty and a melanurrus wrasse for 8 weeks before adding to the DT. Again both Angels died in about 2 weeks., but the wrasse has been swimming and doing well for 4 weeks in DT. I now have a sailfin tang, a coral beauty and 3 blue green chromis in the quarantine, After a week, one of the chromis had a discolored area on its stomach. In one day it died. When I researched pictures of diseased chromis, I found exact identical pictures of Uronema marinum. I now believe that is what is also in my DT because of the symptoms: swimming problems, not eating, the prevalence in chromis , and the fact that lying fallow hasn’t seemed to help my DT’s mystery problem. I can not even begin to picture breaking down a 200 gallon tank. I would like to treat my DT and quarantine with a combo of metro, kanamyacin and furan 2. My first question is what is the best way to mix these antibiotics, at what dosage and how many treatments over how many days. My next question is do you think this is a viable approach. I know Uronema does not need a host, but does the fact my wrasse is living happy in the DT mean that the DT is safe? Or is the Uronema multiplying and eating detritus until the uronema finally get a hold of him too. I’ve read a ton on Uronema with varying approaches and not a whole lot of agreement on how to eradicate it or if it can be eradicated. Are all these fish doomed and will they always be carriers and a danger to all future fish?
It seems to me that if so many chromis have it and all fish stores stock chromis, then is it in all tanks and it doesn’t rear its ugly head until stress arises? Why would anyone take a chance with a chromis if this is so common to them. Please help! I hope anyone with success against Uronema would chime in!!!
 

Humblefish

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Unfortunately, if you have uronema in your DT then there are only two viable options:
  1. Avoid fish known to be susceptible to uronema. These include damsels (especially chromis) and clownfish. However, butterflies and anthias can also be prone.
  2. Sterilize your DT by dosing chlorine @ 60 mg/L.
Dosing metronidazole might eliminate uronema from your tank if it doesn’t get biodegraded quickly. A UV sterilizer is also a possible solution. However, I wouldn’t count on either of those eliminating uronema 100%.
 
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JohnPeck

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Thankyou HumbleFish for your reply! Is that to say all future properly quarantined fish would be safe to add to the DT that are not chromis, damsel, clown, butterfly or anthias?
Also, I have the 2 chromis, sailfin and coral beauty left in the DT that had the third chromis that i believe died of the uronema. Is there any amount of time that could pass that proves these fish are safe to add to the DT.
Thankyou!
 

Humblefish

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@JohnPeck There are no guarantees, but odds are if you avoid those fish you won’t see a recurrence of uronema. Are the 2 chromis you currently have in QT? If so, which meds are you treating with?
 
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JohnPeck

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The 2 chromis are with a sailfin tang and coral beauty in the qt. Theyve had 2 doses of prazipro 5 days apart. They are in their 2nd week of coppersafe (can they tolerate 8 weeks of Cu?). And they had 2 doses of metro 3 days apart. I would like to treat with a combo of metro, kanamyacin and furan 2 but i dont know how to dose because the 3 meds require different days apart or water changes. What is the best way to mix the meds, how many doses and how many days would you recommend? How long should i continue the coppersafe. Thank you so much!
 
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JohnPeck

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@Humblefish So the coral beauty died. He had discoloration on his side and around his face. I'm attaching pictures. This is while being in QT with copper safe and metronidazole. I'm starting to think that these antibiotics may not be therapeutic strength. I wonder if there's any oversight over these oversite over these companies to ensure we are getting what we pay for. Especially at $10 a bottle. What does it look like to you? The Sailfin tang and 2 chromis still look okay. This is my third at getting pygmy angels through qt and into my dt only to die of some disease. Ive described my attempts in this threafd. Is there diseases that are prone to flame angels and coral beauties? What would you do now ? I have a 200 gallon tank with one melanurus wrasse in it. I can't keep fish long enough to get to the DT. And the ones I get to the DT only last for 2 weeks .
20180509_143210.jpg
20180509_142202.jpg
 

Humblefish

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@JohnPeck That is likely a uronema infection, partially suppressed by copper, you are seeing on him. It is very important that you keep dosing metronidazole every 48 hrs. A more aggressive treatment plan for uronema would be a 45 min formalin bath, and then transfer all fish into a new/sterile QT: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/formalin.290925/

With regards to quality control with these companies, it is a valid concern that I share. There is no regulatory body to ensure fish meds are sold with proper concentrations of medication. I primarily use generic bulk meds nowadays (that I buy by the kilo), but even these cannot be confirmed without paying for an expensive independent chemical analysis. o_O
 
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JohnPeck

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@Humblefish Thank you for your reply. You are an amazing source of help to the community. I read somewhere that they believed there was evidence that fish treated with formalin die about 2 yrs later. Is there evidence of this?
How many days would you treat with metro? Ive read you recommend a combo of metro, kanamyacin and furan 2. How would you dose this combo and for how many days?
Lastly, can you share which med bulk supplier you use. Ive tried a very popular fish pharm company and can almost guarantee their CP was "ineffective" based on the fact I was lucky enough to get the last of the CP from a real pharmacist right before it.
Thanks again!
 

4FordFamily

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Humble has you taken care of here, but I’d like to add I personally haven’t found clowns to be particularly susceptible to brook.

If those three meds we often refer to as “the trifecta” were used they would be for bacterial infections and should be done for a duration of 10-14 days. Metro and kanaplex need dosed every 48 hours while furan 2 is dosed daily. This is however not what you’re treating.
 
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JohnPeck

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@Humblefish Ok...So My 2 chromis and sailfin tang are still happy and healthy. Im closing in on 18 days of Metronidazole every 48 hrs. And they've been in coppersafe (tested with my new Hanna tester) for almost 3 weeks. And originally had 2 rounds of prazi 5 days apart. I was planning on stopping the metro at 18 days and keeping the copper for a total of 6 weeks and then removing the copper. i would then watch for an additional 2 weeks. If all is well, they would finally go into DT. Do you believe this is a good plan or do they need the dreaded formalin bath? At this point are they 100% Uronema free? or can they still be carriers? Also would it be safe to use this same QT without sterilizing?
Thank you for everything!
 

Humblefish

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@JohnPeck If no symptoms show after 2 weeks in nonmedicated water, I would say you are good to go.

However, I would still probably break down & sterilize the QT out of an abundance of caution. At the very least dose chlorine @ 60ppm, and let it evaporate (gas off) for a week or two.
 
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JohnPeck

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@JohnPeck If no symptoms show after 2 weeks in nonmedicated water, I would say you are good to go.

However, I would still probably break down & sterilize the QT out of an abundance of caution. At the very least dose chlorine @ 60ppm, and let it evaporate (gas off) for a week or two.
Just to be certain, if i dose with chlorine, i would run the filter during this time. I assume all biological filtration would also be killed off and the tank would have to recycle. Is there a chlorine product you recommend or a bleach to gallon ratio that gets you to 60ppm?
 

Humblefish

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Just to be certain, if i dose with chlorine, i would run the filter during this time. I assume all biological filtration would also be killed off and the tank would have to recycle. Is there a chlorine product you recommend or a bleach to gallon ratio that gets you to 60ppm?

Yes, run the filter & circulate the QT well to increase the evaporation rate of the chlorine. And you will need to reseed the QT with nitrifying bacteria (e.g. Bio-Spira) after all the chlorine is gone. (I use chlorine test strips from a pool supply place.)

Just use regular Clorox (unscented), and follow this dosing guide: http://dec.vermont.gov/sites/dec/files/dwgwp/DW/chlorinedosageemergencydisinfection.pdf

Double check the label, but I’m pretty sure Clorox is 8.25% sodium hypochlorite (for dosing purposes).
 

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Yes, run the filter & circulate the QT well to increase the evaporation rate of the chlorine. And you will need to reseed the QT with nitrifying bacteria (e.g. Bio-Spira) after all the chlorine is gone. (I use chlorine test strips from a pool supply place.)

Just use regular Clorox (unscented), and follow this dosing guide: http://dec.vermont.gov/sites/dec/files/dwgwp/DW/chlorinedosageemergencydisinfection.pdf

Double check the label, but I’m pretty sure Clorox is 8.25% sodium hypochlorite (for dosing purposes).
When you are talking about circulating tank with chlorine, are you using clorox or something different? I can't tell if you are talking about 2 separate processes here.
 

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