Vodka dosing experts

[cchomistek]

Nitrates have not moved down much but phosphates are down to 0.04. Algae appears to be less. I am up to 17mL a day.

 

[Hitman]

Are you doing 1 full dose or several small doses over the course of the day? I’m also running BRS GFO and BRS Rox0.8 Carbon would you recommend still using them or stopping one or both ?

 

[cchomistek]

I am not running gfo or carbon. Just skimming. I think they are safe to use but not certain. I am just skimming. I think the gfo and vodka wouod work well together. I am using 2 doses butbonly a half hour apart 12 mLs at 10 am and 5 mls at 10:30am.

 

[rob safron]

It takes time. In my 120 I went from a Nitrate of 40 to 2 over 2.5 months. Final dose of vinegar was 65 mls. I had to use GFO to help with phosphate.

 

[cchomistek]

For sure I agree it does take time. It has brought the phosphates down quite a bit. I have been dosing for about a month and a half. Algae is definitely not flourishing like it was.

 

[rob safron]

My tank walls and rocks were covered in green hair. All gone after 3 months of vinegar. Now I’m on a 28 ml dose for the last year and never have nitrate or phosphate issue with heavy feeding.

 

[cchomistek]

Awesome. Right on. That is what I am going for. You running mostly sticks or all sorts if corals?

 

[rob safron]

Converting to all SPS. Half way there.

 

[Hitman]

So what’s the difference between using Vodka vs vinegar ? I have mostly lps and softies with 4 SPS but moving towards more SPS sticks

 

[rob safron]

I don’t think there is much difference. I think I read maybe less chance of a bacterial bloom or something like that but many people use Vodka.

 

[brandon429]

hey would you ever consider a bottom to top rip cleaning in such a large system? The reason I ask is we like to collect and implement that work in restoration threads and large tanks are particularly challenging solely due to the volume of makeup water needed for a clean reset...

a neat inversion is to siphon off all your current water into rubbermaids, then we completely replace the sandbed, and detritus-dislodge all the rockwork, then reassemble the entire system detritus free as a skip cycle setup which we collect in the threads.

you can then re use all your old water saving the makeup hassle. the entire technique is centered around instant restoration, not delayed restoration, within the boundaries of what nitrifier beds allow when taking on cleaning tasks. predictable like clockwork

go extra mile and produce 50% new makeup water

your need for carbon dosing and time waiting drops 90% in the presence of a detritus-free system. not anything will cloud upon disturbance post arrest if you ever want Id be down it would be a neat giant cleaning run. it will be so easy to correct nutrient issues in that older water when its not being fed from the bottom up.

 

[aeras1131]

Hello @cchomistek,
You could start your anaerobic bacterial colony with Dr. Tim's waste away most Local fish stores have it. It work best sure you start at a half does and increase to the proper dose after three weeks. 25% increase per week. Turn off your skimmer and uv sterilizer if you have one. After that three week period while dosing vodka, your tank should have a rocking anaerobic bacterial population. After completing this cycle with the product, your anaerobic bacteria population should be rocking. Only question I have is this, why Vodka and not biopellets. They are a much more consistent, simpler, and approachable system. You could get a basic bio reactor and pellets for 100$ It would be a much better investment of time and money. The up flow pellet reactor is naturally low oxygen. BTW, I recommend putting it before your skimmer to lower of oxygen in the reactor. Mind you, I do not follow that rule and mine still works. The only reason my reactor is in the section past the skimmer is because the original lfs that I worked with had me put rubble in the skimmer chamber. If you have any questions about the process. Feel free to reach out to me. I know that it works. I have sub 2ppm nitrates. The only reason that is 1ppm or less is the volume of organic pelletized carbon..
p.s. the bacteria will not be everywhere in your tank because of this it will be concentrated in the reactor. Overall this will make your tank much cleaner.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Only question I have is this, why Vodka and not biopellets. They are a much more consistent, simpler, and approachable system.

I have several reasons I prefer soluble organic dosing (especially vinegar) over biopellets:

1. It is easier to adjust the "dose" up or down as needed.
2. You cannot control the timing of the biopellet dose so you cannot dose when O2 and pH is naturally highest (all organic carbon dosing methods will tend, to some extent, to depress both).
3. The acetate from the vinegar is used by a very wide range of organisms in the tank (including corals) so you may be providing many organisms with a boost of energy. Biopellets are not.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So what’s the difference between using Vodka vs vinegar ? I have mostly lps and softies with 4 SPS but moving towards more SPS sticks

Both work fine and mixtures work fine.

I prefer vinegar for a couple of reasons:

1. In my tank, vodka seemed more prone to driving cyano. Both can drive cyano (presumably depending on which exact cyano species are present), but from the many experiences I've read, it seems somewhat less often with vinegar.

2. I think that acetate is used by a wider range of organisms than ethanol.

 

[cchomistek]

The major reason I am going with vodka as I work at a distillery and thus have about 10 40oz bottles of vodka kicking around so cost is zero. And I have had good luck in the past with vodka on a previous tank.

This tank is a bit different as the past one was akways run on RO water and water changes were done regularly. While this tank ran for 4 years with tap water and very few water changes and was badically fish only during that time. We ran a salt water fish store orior to setting up this tank and were kibd of just done with it but still wanted a tank. Fast forward to today and now I want to get back into the sps coral game. Thus trying to get the tank back to where it needs to be with more water changes. RO water and now using the vodka to reduce nitrates and phosphates and rid the algae.

The phosphates have come down from 0.12 to 0.04 but the nitrates have not come down much yet. Algae is looking fairly weak. Cyano is still there but that may be do to the vodka. Although i will not worry about it till the nitrates get down to 5 or lower than I may reevaluate what I am doing. Once I am there I may go to a mix of vodka and vinegar.

Hello @cchomistek,
You could start your anaerobic bacterial colony with Dr. Tim's waste away most Local fish stores have it. It work best sure you start at a half does and increase to the proper dose after three weeks. 25% increase per week. Turn off your skimmer and uv sterilizer if you have one. After that three week period while dosing vodka, your tank should have a rocking anaerobic bacterial population. After completing this cycle with the product, your anaerobic bacteria population should be rocking. Only question I have is this, why Vodka and not biopellets. They are a much more consistent, simpler, and approachable system. You could get a basic bio reactor and pellets for 100$ It would be a much better investment of time and money. The up flow pellet reactor is naturally low oxygen. BTW, I recommend putting it before your skimmer to lower of oxygen in the reactor. Mind you, I do not follow that rule and mine still works. The only reason my reactor is in the section past the skimmer is because the original lfs that I worked with had me put rubble in the skimmer chamber. If you have any questions about the process. Feel free to reach out to me. I know that it works. I have sub 2ppm nitrates. The only reason that is 1ppm or less is the volume of organic pelletized carbon..
p.s. the bacteria will not be everywhere in your tank because of this it will be concentrated in the reactor. Overall this will make your tank much cleaner.

 

[aeras1131]

The major reason I am going with vodka as I work at a distillery and thus have about 10 40oz bottles of vodka kicking around so cost is zero. And I have had good luck in the past with vodka on a previous tank.

This tank is a bit different as the past one was akways run on RO water and water changes were done regularly. While this tank ran for 4 years with tap water and very few water changes and was badically fish only during that time. We ran a salt water fish store orior to setting up this tank and were kibd of just done with it but still wanted a tank. Fast forward to today and now I want to get back into the sps coral game. Thus trying to get the tank back to where it needs to be with more water changes. RO water and now using the vodka to reduce nitrates and phosphates and rid the algae.

The phosphates have come down from 0.12 to 0.04 but the nitrates have not come down much yet. Algae is looking fairly weak. Cyano is still there but that may be do to the vodka. Although i will not worry about it till the nitrates get down to 5 or lower than I may reevaluate what I am doing. Once I am there I may go to a mix of vodka and vinegar.

I would look into drip dosing Coral nutrient products, such as Red Sea Reef A+B, Acropower, or Aquavitro fuel. All are dosable with an auto drip pump. Aquavitro fuel needs to be dosed in 2 months reservoir of portions, because it has a limited shelf life at room temp. The first two products do not. Anecdotally, Fuel resolved my my lack of coralline algae without raising NO3 or PO4 while using a carbon reactor or vodka. I dose the amount recommended on the bottle in for a week subdivided into amounts that spread it out equally over the course of a week. I imagine the anaerobic bacteria population just grows proportionally to the increase in nutrients. Personally, I did not notice a difference with Fuel until I started drip dosing the product. Prior to drip dosing, I spread the weekly recommended dose spread across three equal portions manually. I imagine this has something to do with skimming the product out of the water before it used.

 

[cchomistek]

I have lots of coraline algae. Rocks all covered. Tank is 4 years old so it has had lits of time to grow that. Not sure what those coral foids would do for me at this time. Just want to get the bacteria load up to outcompete the algae abd kower the nutrients.

I would look into drip dosing Coral nutrient products, such as Red Sea Reef A+B, Acropower, or Aquavitro fuel. All are dosable with an auto drip pump. Aquavitro fuel needs to be dosed in 2 months reservoir of portions, because it has a limited shelf life at room temp. The first two products do not. Anecdotally, Fuel resolved my my lack of coralline algae without raising NO3 or PO4 while using a carbon reactor or vodka. I dose the amount recommended on the bottle in for a week subdivided into amounts that spread it out equally over the course of a week. I imagine the anaerobic bacteria population just grows proportionally to the increase in nutrients. Personally, I did not notice a difference with Fuel until I started drip dosing the product. Prior to drip dosing, I spread the weekly recommended dose spread across three equal portions manually. I imagine this has something to do with skimming the product out of the water before it used.

 

[aeras1131]

Sorry @cchomistek I misread your post I thought you stated that you coralline algae was declining, which is why I made the suggestion. When you you need to dose the products I suggested, the canary in the coal mine is typically coralline algae. It will begin declining.

 

[cchomistek]

No worries. So you are thinking that my coraline will begin to decline because I am vodka dosing and using vibrant?? I have read that some people have declining coraline do to vibrant but not all. But vodka dosing i don't think should affect coraline.

Thanks

 

[aeras1131]

@cchomistek
It will have more to do with decline on nutrients as a whole. I noticed at a NO3 level of 2ppm and PO4 at 2.5 ppm my coralline declined about 50%. You will see white spots on your rocks where you used to have coralline algae. I started drip dosing aminos and the Anaerobic bacteria simple reacted to the increase in Nutrients and my Coralline algae resumed normal growth. My nutrients stayed the same. I would recommend the eye test. Note when your coralline starts to decline and then dose the recommended dose for the amino additive of your choice. No worries though, it took my anaerobic population a few months before it got to this point You could take weekly full tank shots and note coralline algae to make a record keeping easy. Plus you get lovely historical FTS for your tank.