Vodka dosing

[jlinzmaier]

Anyone in the fox valley use carbon dosing in the form of vodka, vinegar, sugar, vitamin C, etc... to increase bacterial proliferation for nutrient management??

Jeremy

 

[kass03]

Ive been dosing sugar for prolly 2 years now in my 150 and 55 gal.
My nitrates used to be off the chart in my 150 and it brought them down very slowly over months.
I did stop for a few months in between but went back to it as the nitrates were going up again.
Ive never had a problem with it. The only thing I dont like about it is it makes things like your pumps slimy and they need to be cleaned more often.
I started really slow with a very low dose at first. I now am up to about 1/2 tsp in my 55 maybe a little more and not quite a tbsp in my 150 every day or 2 cuz sometimes I forget.
I wouldnt do it without a skimmer as it can deplete the O2.

kass

 

[johnanddawn]

i originaly started dosing vodka almost 2 years ago in a test tank. the results on that tank were iffi at best but i wasn't dosing a bacteria source. by iffi i mean i did not notice anything positive or negative - quite neutral actually
i started with vodka and bacteria right away when i started the new tank up. so far i am quite pleased with the results. i do not test nitrate or phosphate but rather just use my experience to judge the appearance of the tank and corals.
what it seems to do for me is allow me to feed my fish and lps as much as i want and still get nice colors from my sps
i dose a small amount (about 1-2 cc) every day and add 5 - 10 drops of bacteria. i use mb7 because f&s have that in stock
i have never gotten the slime that many speak of but i have a pretty nice skimmer and dose low.
however my results can't be attributed to vodka and bacteria alone. the reason i started over was to fix a lot of things i didn't like about the old set-up. the new system employs a better skimmer, T5 lighting, much better flow, and and awesome sump system - all of which are important.
many are jumping on the vodka wagon lately but imo you need to address all the other stuff first and then maybe use vodka/bacteria to add a bit of boost to the system

 

[jlinzmaier]

Kass.

Just curious, why did you choose sugar over other carbon sources??


Johnanddawn.

I agree 100%. Good husbandry is first and foremost in managing nutrients, however, I think if used appropriately, bacterial proliferation can remove the need for other equipment (GFO, macroalgae, ozone injection, etc...) and the work/cost that goes with it. I also think that bacterial proliferation can remove po4 at a pace less agressively than GFO thus limiting stress on the corals.

I was hell bent on zeo but I'm now modifying the process a bit. I've been running it for 13 months, and it has yeilded great results, but I'm now at a very low nutrient level and I'm finding the zeolites just too agressive at nutrient removal. I'm now only running them passively in my sump and dosing the bak three times a week in addition to a low dose of the carbon source (start2) twice daily. I've tried all the other zeo products and have seen little to no results with any of them. I do continue to use the coral vitalizer and sponge power as they seem to be very good foods for both the corals and microfauna.

I just ordered some buffered vitamin C in a powder form to do a bit of experimentation with it as a carbon source. Others have claimed that they've seen many other benefits to coral and fish health even when only dosing it in small amounts into the water column intending it to be meant as a carbon source for bacterial proliferation.

 

[mark_molly]

I just ordered some buffered vitamin C in a powder form to do a bit of experimentation with it as a carbon source. Others have claimed that they've seen many other benefits to coral and fish health even when only dosing it in small amounts into the water column intending it to be meant as a carbon source for bacterial proliferation.

I'm about to do the same thing too. I don't feel like I need to dose anything more at this point, I just want to see if I see the same benefits as other have with it.

 

[Fishcrazy06]

I have heard good things in correlation with zoas and vitamin C. I did dose for a while but didn't know a difference but I wasn't using the buffered vitC I did see some before and after pics of people using it and they did seem to have more colorful open zoas.

Eric

 

[kass03]

Eric, I use sugar because it's cheaper and it does the same thing as Vodka as far as I know. Both are a carbon source. I never understood why people added Vodka instead.
The difference in the Vit. C is if you get the non buffered you will eventually have alk problems.

It's my understanding the slime is the bacteria growing on things. When I stopped using sugar for awhile the slime went away. I don't have slime growing anywhere in my tank but it grows on the pump impellers, skimmer etc.
For me sugar helped with nitrate but I still use GFO for P04. I don't think it does much for phosphate unless you have a really pristine tank (which I don't lol) and it has no nitrate to feed on.

Not sure John why you have to also add bacteria when the carbon source grows the bacteria?

BE CAREFUL WITH THE VIT. C
I started adding that to my 24 gal. nano oh about 2 months ago. Yes I got the buffered kind online in Pufferpunks thread.
I did'nt really think it was a carbon source. I started adding it for my zoa's and such cuz it's suppose to enhance color and make them healthier. I know alot of people use it along with vodka or sugar.
By the chart I added 1/8 tsp twice a day (I actually started with about half that) to my 24 gal nano. All was good I did'nt really notice a change in much for awhile but then my miami hurricane chalice frag started to color up (could be a coincidence as it was brown when I got it).
Then I bumped up the dosage a little and it looked like my MH was kinda turning whitish but looked healthy and not bleached really just odd looking. It's hard to explain. It almost looked like it was peeling off a little but never receded and the whole time was puffy and looked healthy.
Honestly I'm not sure if it had anything to do with the vit. C but seemed to so I now just add not quite 1/8 tsp once a day. The MH looks fine.
The real problem I had with Vit C was I decide to try it on my 55. I added 1 dose of twice as much as my nano to my 55 at night and 1 dose the next day. My shrooms did'nt look good, my RBTA split and my yellow tang I had for over 10 years stopped eating and looked like it's gill was burned on 1 side. It was all red.
I stopped immediately. The tang did'nt eat and acted funny for days but then recovered and started eating again and is fine luckily.
I didnt think it would affect the fish (I have none in my nano) as theres an article of using it in higher doses gradually to cure diseases in them. The yellow tang was the only one it seemed to bother though.

I'd suggest if you do use VIT C start at half the dosage you think you need and observe everything. Then bump it up after a week or so.

All of these things could be a coincidence but it scared me enough that I'm afraid to try it again in my 55. I do add sugar to that tank but did'nt when I tried the vit. C.
The water never got cloudy or anything so it was'nt a bacteria bloom.
I added it twice a day to my nano for over a month and did'nt really notice a change in anything (I have zoa's, acans, chalice, shrooms) except in the MH and that could have been coloring up from my lights.

If you guys use it I'd like to know your findings cuz when mines gone I dunno if I'll keep using it. I know Puffer doses alot in her tank with no bad results.

kass

 

[jandlms]

Kass,
Do you recommend dosing your sugar in a solution of koolaid or straight sugar?? How about gator-aid? And you thought that was forgotten!!!!!!!

 

[johnanddawn]

yeah i heard the clear koolaid is a great top off

i started dosing the bacteria to avoid any type of cycle in the new tank start up - and it worked as my tank didn't even skip a beat as i moved corals, rock and fish from their holding cells to the tank

i continue to dose bacteria because it is a way of ensuring that the bacteria being consumed/dieing/skimmed out get replaced by effective nitrogen cycle bacteria instead of some random bacteria. but it probably isn't entirely neccessary to dose daily like i do. i think of it this way - if your carbon dosing, you want to be feeding the bacteria that help the tank process nutrients effectively

 

[kass03]

Yeah I think grape kool-aid would work better as it would make all the corals purple.

Don't even start you guys or people will be adding kool-aid to their tanks thinking it's the next new thing :hammer:


kass

 

[jlinzmaier]

I've ordered some buffered vit C and I'll post up what kind of results I see. I'm already at a very low nutrient level but in the next two weeks I'm adding 6 chromis and a kole tang so the bioload will significantly increase. I'll also slowly back down the start2 (zeo carbon source) as I inititate the vit C dosing.

Jeremy

 

[PrisonCityReef]

I dose Brandy. About 44 mL with 6 oz Coke and a couple ice cubes. Ohhhh, dosing the tank?? Dunno.

 

[DaveA]

Eric, I use sugar because it's cheaper and it does the same thing as Vodka as far as I know. Both are a carbon source. I never understood why people added Vodka instead.

I've read elsewhere that it's probably better to add multiple carbon sources, for example, a mixture of vodka, sugar, and vinegar (of course, get the right dosages - they should be pretty low). If you only use one carbon source, you might only get one kind of bacteria instead of a bunch of different kinds. The amount you use should be so low that the cost should be irrelevant.

 

[Paul_N]

I currently dose 2ml 2X per day of vodka and also vit c (sodium ascorbate) 1/4 tsp 2X per day. I mainly dosed vodka for the past 9 mos to a year. I can tell you that my nitrates are always zero no matter how much I feed. I currently feed 2X per day Rods food and also rotifers 2X per day. I have a 105 gal total system (75 DT and 30 sump). As Kass said I started out with very small amounts (.04 ml of vodka) and bumped up .02 every other week. I really have not noticed any difference since I added the vit c but will finish out the bottle and decide then. If I am not getting any benfit that I can see then I will just use vodka. I also add an amp of Biodigest once every other month also just for bacteria diversity. A fifth of vodka is only like 9$ and last me about 6 mos. I tried the sugar mix from glassboxdesign vodka/sugar/vinegar and had the slime issues. I cut out the vinegar then the sugar and the slime went away. That is the reason I use vodka instead of regular sugar.

 

[jlinzmaier]

I've read elsewhere that it's probably better to add multiple carbon sources, for example, a mixture of vodka, sugar, and vinegar (of course, get the right dosages - they should be pretty low). If you only use one carbon source, you might only get one kind of bacteria instead of a bunch of different kinds. The amount you use should be so low that the cost should be irrelevant.

Yes your correct to some degree. Diversity of carbon sources does aid in diversity of bacterial growth (good and bad bacteria). To address Kass's question about dosing a cultured bacteria, the addition of the cultured nitrifying bacteria helps create an environment in which the preferred bacteria are more prevalent and metabolizing the carbon sources we're dosing (just as johnanddawn indicated). Assuming that adding only one carbon source will create a monoculture is entirely inaccurate and not possible. A monoculture of bacteria in a reef tank likely isn't possible even if the most advanced biologist tried deliberately to accomplish it. In short, there are many beneficial bacteria within a reef tank and some proliferate better with one carbon source vs another, therefore dosing multiple carbon sources is good but not necessary.

I currently dose 2ml 2X per day of vodka and also vit c (sodium ascorbate) 1/4 tsp 2X per day. I mainly dosed vodka for the past 9 mos to a year. I can tell you that my nitrates are always zero no matter how much I feed. I currently feed 2X per day Rods food and also rotifers 2X per day. I have a 105 gal total system (75 DT and 30 sump). As Kass said I started out with very small amounts (.04 ml of vodka) and bumped up .02 every other week. I really have not noticed any difference since I added the vit c but will finish out the bottle and decide then. If I am not getting any benfit that I can see then I will just use vodka. I also add an amp of Biodigest once every other month also just for bacteria diversity. A fifth of vodka is only like 9$ and last me about 6 mos. I tried the sugar mix from glassboxdesign vodka/sugar/vinegar and had the slime issues. I cut out the vinegar then the sugar and the slime went away. That is the reason I use vodka instead of regular sugar.

If you saw no differences with dosing 1/4 tsp twice daily wouldn't you try adjusting the dose up or down before you gave up on Vit C dosing?? Monkeying around with dosing and seeing it's effects is half the fun. Everyones tanks are extremely different in bio diversity, biological load, etc..., just becuase you see no effects at 1/4 tsp doesn't mean Vit C dosing won't work for you. I guess it also depends on what your trying to accomplish with the vit C dosing. You said you already have 0 detectable nitrates. Some people have seen improved coloration and improved polyp ext from various corals with the addition of vit C dosing (and they also previously had undetectable nitrates and po4). What intrigues me with the vit C is that there are many other effects on coral metabolism and coral health which makes it more beneficial to a reef tank besides being just a carbon source for bacterial growth.

A dose of 1/4 tsp is around 3.25 PPM in 100 gallons (net). Some people are dosing upwards of 30-40 PPM before they achieve the results they are looking for. Those doses are primarily used by people trying to cure illnesses in zoa's, however there are people also experimenting and showing good results with vit C dosing to prevent and/or cure bacterial infections in stony corals which is usually evident as a STN that almost always ends up as death of the entire colony (fragging and dipping usually isn't even effective with what are suspected bacterial infections).

I just got my vit C today. I'm starting out with 1/8 tsp twice daily in a 160 gal (net) system. I'll let you know what happens.

Jeremy

 

[Paul_N]

If you saw no differences with dosing 1/4 tsp twice daily wouldn't you try adjusting the dose up or down before you gave up on Vit C dosing?? Monkeying around with dosing and seeing it's effects is half the fun. Everyones tanks are extremely different in bio diversity, biological load, etc..., just becuase you see no effects at 1/4 tsp doesn't mean Vit C dosing won't work for you. I guess it also depends on what your trying to accomplish with the vit C dosing. You said you already have 0 detectable nitrates. Some people have seen improved coloration and improved polyp ext from various corals with the addition of vit C dosing (and they also previously had undetectable nitrates and po4). What intrigues me with the vit C is that there are many other effects on coral metabolism and coral health which makes it more beneficial to a reef tank besides being just a carbon source for bacterial growth.

A dose of 1/4 tsp is around 3.25 PPM in 100 gallons (net). Some people are dosing upwards of 30-40 PPM before they achieve the results they are looking for. Those doses are primarily used by people trying to cure illnesses in zoa's, however there are people also experimenting and showing good results with vit C dosing to prevent and/or cure bacterial infections in stony corals which is usually evident as a STN that almost always ends up as death of the entire colony (fragging and dipping usually isn't even effective with what are suspected bacterial infections).

I just got my vit C today. I'm starting out with 1/8 tsp twice daily in a 160 gal (net) system. I'll let you know what happens.

Jeremy

I was up to 1/2 tsp 2X per day and started to see the stringy clear slime on my coral. I was just looking for better color with the vit c. I already have great growth and low nitrates and phosphates. I may try and bump it up again and see what happens.

 

[CoralBandit]

I have used the vodka/sugar/vinegar combo and the straight vodka. I really didn't notice a difference, they both worked very well allowing me to feed heavily with no negative results. But I just use vodka I'm lazy and I like having a constant supply.