NEW Vodka and Vinegar Dosing Charts

[Dan_P]

It’s just a hypothesis, but I dosed upstream of my refugia and never saw any bacteria in the display. I’m speculating it grew on the rocks in my refugia. It seems logical that the bacteria will thrive most where there is the most organic, before it dilutes into the whole tank system.

The idea stands or falls on the dilution rate in the refugia. What is it, approximately, amongst friends?

The second aspect I struggle to think quantitatively about is the distribution of consumption. It likely takes hours to consume a 1 mL vinegar dose in one gallon. I assume you are doing a continuous dose. I think this means a very dilute organic carbon solution incompletely washes over refugia surfaces as it is diluted. I guess the planktonic bacteria are more likely consuming it because they live with this organic soup and are not seeing it briefly from only one side of a biofilm. Then there is the diffusion rate issue and poor circulation at the surfaces with a thick stagnant layer which further slows consumption by the biofilm.

The lack of visible bacteria growth is likely from not doing bolus doses-though if you are doing bolus doses, I need to come up with another reason :-) When dosing a model system, it is only during exponential growth that bacteria becomes visible. If your system is not at exponential growth, I doubt you will see bacteria growth no matter how you dose.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The idea stands or falls on the dilution rate in the refugia. What is it, approximately, amongst friends?

The second aspect I struggle to think quantitatively about is the distribution of consumption. It likely takes hours to consume a 1 mL vinegar dose in one gallon. I assume you are doing a continuous dose. I think this means a very dilute organic carbon solution incompletely washes over refugia surfaces as it is diluted. I guess the planktonic bacteria are more likely consuming it because they live with this organic soup and are not seeing it briefly from only one side of a biofilm. Then there is the diffusion rate issue and poor circulation at the surfaces with a thick stagnant layer which further slows consumption by the biofilm.

The lack of visible bacteria growth is likely from not doing bolus doses-though if you are doing bolus doses, I need to come up with another reason :-) When dosing a model system, it is only during exponential growth that bacteria becomes visible. If your system is not at exponential growth, I doubt you will see bacteria growth no matter how you dose.

I’ve always had slow turnover to keep sound down, and believing fast sump exchange is not useful. I do not recall exactly what the flow was like then, but I think it may have taken ballpark 30 minutes to move through the refugium.

I was dosing using a 1.1 mL per min BRS doser, and spread the dosing out during the daylight hours, so there was never a large bolus.

It may be that planktonic bacteria were heavy users. But for some folks that is apparently not true and they get white globs in the display.

 

[Dan_P]

I’ve always had slow turnover to keep sound down, and believing fast sump exchange is not useful. I do not recall exactly what the flow was like then, but I think it may have taken ballpark 30 minutes to move through the refugium.

I was dosing using a 1.1 mL per min BRS doser, and spread the dosing out during the daylight hours, so there was never a large bolus.

It may be that planktonic bacteria were heavy users. But for some folks that is apparently not true and they get white globs in the display.

I think exponential growth is the only reason for the visible bacterial blobs, but I can’t say why some aquarist’s benthic bacteria are responding so well to the carbon dose. I might have to revisit those threads to tease out info, but after my case of amino acid mania is cured :-)

 

[Lasse]

To the both of you - visible bacteria growth is not only the white blobs (its probably only one group of bacteria normally named filamentous bacteria) it also are the light brown mud (read bacteria film) that you see in a skimmer neck or the skimmer cup´s cover and in my experiment with my GFO reactor (references in post #727 in this thread).

Its clearly for me that the combination of an attaching area, well oxygenated nutrient rich aquarium water and a organic carbon source create a rather fast benthic bacteria growth. (in the case of the skimmer - the carbon source is concentrated proteins - and probably amino acids. In the case of my GFO reactor the carbon source is the dose of 0.1 ml/minute of 0.20 % ethanol 24/7. My reactor is around 1 L and flow around 160 L/h)

In the case of my skimmer - it takes around 1 - 2 days after a complete cleaning before I see a visual bacteria growth - the bacteria is in exponential growth and keep that stage as long as there is nutrients, oxygen and a carbon source (read skimmed proteins) is available.

In the case of my GFO reactor - I see a fast build of bacteria already after 1 day and it continue until its so dense that it will totally block the well oxygenated nutrient rich water going through the filter.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dan_P]

To the both of you - visible bacteria growth is not only the white blobs (its probably only one group of bacteria normally named filamentous bacteria) it also are the light brown mud (read bacteria film) that you see in a skimmer neck or the skimmer cup´s cover and in my experiment with my GFO reactor (references in post #727 in this thread).

Its clearly for me that the combination of an attaching area, well oxygenated nutrient rich aquarium water and a organic carbon source create a rather fast benthic bacteria growth. (in the case of the skimmer - the carbon source is concentrated proteins - and probably amino acids. In the case of my GFO reactor the carbon source is the dose of 0.1 ml/minute of 0.20 % ethanol 24/7. My reactor is around 1 L and flow around 160 L/h)

In the case of my skimmer - it takes around 1 - 2 days after a complete cleaning before I see a visual bacteria growth - the bacteria is in exponential growth and keep that stage as long as there is nutrients, oxygen and a carbon source (read skimmed proteins) is available.

In the case of my GFO reactor - I see a fast build of bacteria already after 1 day and it continue until its so dense that it will totally block the well oxygenated nutrient rich water going through the filter.

Sincerely Lasse

Yes, I observe the same behavior.

 

[tzabor10]

Following

 

[HOBtx79]

So my question is that I use the DIY NOPOX so it has both distilled vinegar and vodka in it with RO water. Both of the doses in post #1 are for them if dosed solely. So what would I dose on my 250 g volume system? Nitrates were at 75ish and phospates at 3. Both Salifert test kits ( I feed heavy when I am home but feeding was more when I left it to someone else when I was out of town for 2 weeks). I started out with dosing 40ml a day. @0 in the morning and 20 at night. I have a display refugium that is on the opposite lighting schedule then the DT. I do 10ml in sump before skimmer and 10ml in DT at the powerhead.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

FWIW, there is nothing magic about the particular doses selected.

If you want to mix vodka and vinegar, you could just drop each dose by half and combine them.

 

[Superlightman]

have some of you noticed that vinegar dosing reduce polyps extension?I had recently forgot to recharge the vinegar and polyps extension and colors t started to improve, when i resume the dosing I had less polyps again? coincidence ?

 

[AtlanticGail]

I dosed 20ml Vodka in 80 gallon and it put the nitrates at 1 - 2. I lowered it slowly to 8, and now nitrate is stable at 10 - 15.

Thank you very much @Miami Reef @Randy Holmes-Farley! You made this possible!

Just curious how your tank doing today, are your nitrates and phosphates steady or are you still carbon dosing.

 

[KTTX]

have some of you noticed that vinegar dosing reduce polyps extension?I had recently forgot to recharge the vinegar and polyps extension and colors t started to improve, when i resume the dosing I had less polyps again? coincidence ?

I dont it was the carbon dosing...

 

[Waldek M.]

have some of you noticed that vinegar dosing reduce polyps extension?I had recently forgot to recharge the vinegar and polyps extension and colors t started to improve, when i resume the dosing I had less polyps again? coincidence ?

I had a similar experience. When dosing vodka alone, my anemones started to shrink, and the corals responded to the vinegar mix—and vinegar on its own—with poor polyp extension. I no longer worry about my nitrate levels being in the 25–50 range and don't dose anything for it, while I control phosphates using lanthanum.

 

[AtlanticGail]

I had a similar experience. When dosing vodka alone, my anemones started to shrink, and the corals responded to the vinegar mix—and vinegar on its own—with poor polyp extension. I no longer worry about my nitrate levels being in the 25–50 range and don't dose anything for it, while I control phosphates using lanthanum.

What level are you keeping your phosphates at? How old is your tank

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

FWIW, I did not have any apparent issues dosing vinegar alone. :)

 

[Waldek M.]

What level are you keeping your phosphates at? How old is your tank

I have been running the system and keeping this livestock for about two years now, and I am very happy with it. I try to keep phosphate levels between 0.1 and 0.5.