water change during cycle

[cnjcpb]

Should I do a water change during my cycle? Used live sand, dry rock and microbacter start xlm with ammonia quickcycle. my ammonia is still reading .25 on api. I added to 1ppm of ammonia and it only dropped to .5 in 24 hour period. Its been 11 days. Should I let it sit or do a water change?

 

[Pistondog]

What would be the idea to do a water change?

 

[JNalley]

instead of measuring the ammonia, measure the Nitrite and Nitrates. If you have high Nitrates do a water change and add fish.

Fish secrete Ammonia in their waste
This ammonia gets converted to Nitrite
The Nitrite gets converted to Nitrate

^That is how things go, so if you're getting Nitrates in decent amounts, it means you have bacterial colonies capable of performing the actions you want.

As time goes on, a 4th process happens, and that's the conversion of Nitrate into Nitrogen, though, this takes much longer to occur, and nitrates are often times exported by other means before they even make it to this point.


So, if you have high nitrates already, you can perform a water change and add fish.

 

[cnjcpb]

instead of measuring the ammonia, measure the Nitrite and Nitrates. If you have high Nitrates do a water change and add fish.

Fish secrete Ammonia in their waste
This ammonia gets converted to Nitrite
The Nitrite gets converted to Nitrate

^That is how things go, so if you're getting Nitrates in decent amounts, it means you have bacterial colonies capable of performing the actions you want.

As time goes on, a 4th process happens, and that's the conversion of Nitrate into Nitrogen, though, this takes much longer to occur, and nitrates are often times exported by other means before they even make it to this point.


So, if you have high nitrates already, you can perform a water change and add fish.

Nitrates are 80+ Nitrites are 5 +

 

[JNalley]

Nitrates are 80+ Nitrites are 5 +

Then you're good to go. Go ahead and perform a large water change (75%), and you can add fish

 

[MnFish1]

1. I do not see a reason for a water change 'now'.
2. The presence of nitrate alone does not mean the tank is cycled (however it may very well be)
3. The usual metric (depending on the protocol) is if a tank can process 2 ppm total ammonia in 24 hours. I would put more weight on the fact that your tank only processed 0.5 ppm in 24 hours. (Assuming your testing is done correctly - and API is sometimes difficult to read - remember - the color (per the instruction) of the solution needn't be exactly at 0 for the measurement to be 0. If the color of the tube, in the proper lighting is closer to the yellow (0) than the light green (0.25) - the value is considered to be 0.
4. I would add ammonia to 2 ppm, (verify its at 2 ppm after you add it) - and then check again 24 hours later. I think that will give you a better idea of what's going on.
5. You can also take a water sample to your LFS and verify your numbers with a different test kit.

Just to get back to your original question - the nitrate levels in your tank may help to promote more of an ugly stage - especially if they go higher - so a water change of like 50 percent will lower them to 40 or so. It will not affect your cycle one way or another. If you want to do this, I would do it before trying the 2ppm ammonia test.

As @JNalley suggests (and I agree) there are multiple protocols and methods to cycle a tank. In all reality, if you want to add fish - you are probably fine (assuming you're not going to try further testing). If you are wanting to add fish now, I would go slowly and I would do a water change. Just to emphasize - you don't want to add ammonia to a tank with fish - I know that sounds like a self-evident idea - but - it has happened before. Let us know how the tank is going, and welcome to the Hobby/R2R

 

[cnjcpb]

What would be the idea to do a water change?

just wanted to make sure I am not missing something. My nitrites & nitrates are still really high. My ammonia hasnt dropped below .25.

1. I do not see a reason for a water change 'now'.
2. The presence of nitrate alone does not mean the tank is cycled (however it may very well be)
3. The usual metric (depending on the protocol) is if a tank can process 2 ppm total ammonia in 24 hours. I would put more weight on the fact that your tank only processed 0.5 ppm in 24 hours. (Assuming your testing is done correctly - and API is sometimes difficult to read - remember - the color (per the instruction) of the solution needn't be exactly at 0 for the measurement to be 0. If the color of the tube, in the proper lighting is closer to the yellow (0) than the light green (0.25) - the value is considered to be 0.
4. I would add ammonia to 2 ppm, (verify its at 2 ppm after you add it) - and then check again 24 hours later. I think that will give you a better idea of what's going on.
5. You can also take a water sample to your LFS and verify your numbers with a different test kit.

Just to get back to your original question - the nitrate levels in your tank may help to promote more of an ugly stage - especially if they go higher - so a water change of like 50 percent will lower them to 40 or so. It will not affect your cycle one way or another. If you want to do this, I would do it before trying the 2ppm ammonia test.

As @JNalley suggests (and I agree) there are multiple protocols and methods to cycle a tank. In all reality, if you want to add fish - you are probably fine (assuming you're not going to try further testing). If you are wanting to add fish now, I would go slowly and I would do a water change. Just to emphasize - you don't want to add ammonia to a tank with fish - I know that sounds like a self-evident idea - but - it has happened before. Let us know how the tank is going, and welcome to the Hobby/R2R

THANK YOU! I will be headed to the lfs on my day off tomorrow to test & will be purchasing Hanna testers as the months pass due to the price. Also, would it hurt to add a piece of live rock in the sump portion of my AIO? I was thinking about buying a small piece tomorrow and adding it to my filter system.

 

[Cthulukelele]

just wanted to make sure I am not missing something. My nitrites & nitrates are still really high. My ammonia hasnt dropped below .25.

THANK YOU! I will be headed to the lfs on my day off tomorrow to test & will be purchasing Hanna testers as the months pass due to the price. Also, would it hurt to add a piece of live rock in the sump portion of my AIO? I was thinking about buying a small piece tomorrow and adding it to my filter system.

FYI your nitrates likely aren't 80+ unless you've been cranking ammonia into that tank. The presence of nitrite makes nitrate readings inconsistent and oftentimes makes them read incredibly high. I'd still say water change is fine, but I thought I'd mention.

 

[cnjcpb]

FYI your nitrates likely aren't 80+ unless you've been cranking ammonia into that tank. The presence of nitrite makes nitrate readings inconsistent and oftentimes makes them read incredibly high. I'd still say water change is fine, but I thought I'd mention.

I could very well be color blind too! It's just a matter of time before I own the whole Hanna collection.

 

[MnFish1]

just wanted to make sure I am not missing something. My nitrites & nitrates are still really high. My ammonia hasnt dropped below .25.

THANK YOU! I will be headed to the lfs on my day off tomorrow to test & will be purchasing Hanna testers as the months pass due to the price. Also, would it hurt to add a piece of live rock in the sump portion of my AIO? I was thinking about buying a small piece tomorrow and adding it to my filter system.

it might - but probably won't - depending on the size of the rock, and the size of your tank. If you're concerned about the cycle - you can also add more 'cycling bacteria' - like Fritz 9000. Otherwise I would just be patient

 

[MnFish1]

FYI your nitrates likely aren't 80+ unless you've been cranking ammonia into that tank. The presence of nitrite makes nitrate readings inconsistent and oftentimes makes them read incredibly high. I'd still say water change is fine, but I thought I'd mention.

Very good point!!!!!!!!!! Thanks. This is sporadic - but should not be ignored - and I have heard it both ways - that nitrite being high can influence nitrates - and vice versa - however, if this is the case (in your case) - it gives evidence why nitrite measurement during cycling can be helpful. Despite many people stating the opposite

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Agreed the nitrates are not 80+ ppm, and may be zero.

Nitrite at 5 ppm (if accurate) will read as 250 ppm nitrate with some kits, even if nitrate is zero.

Don't bother measuring nitrate until nitrite is gone, and I do not see a reason to do a water change now.