water change question

[jarviz]

Water changes help lower nitrates, remove any unwanted chemicals/impurities, and make up lost trace elements. But if all those are good. Technically a water change wouldn't really benefit the tank right i imagine. If you're monitoring all parameters, and everything is in check; and your tank and corals looks good. is there any reason to do a water change?
This is assuming the tank isn't heavily stocked with SPSs and have a high demand for trace elements... but i imagine for lower nutrient systems, top offs can probably make up a lot of trace elements right?

 

[Azedenkae]

Water changes help lower nitrates, remove any unwanted chemicals/impurities, and make up lost trace elements. But if all those are good. Technically a water change wouldn't really benefit the tank right i imagine. If you're monitoring all parameters, and everything is in check; and your tank and corals looks good. is there any reason to do a water change?
This is assuming the tank isn't heavily stocked with SPSs and have a high demand for trace elements... but i imagine for lower nutrient systems, top offs can probably make up a lot of trace elements right?

In that case you don't need to do a water change.

The issue is whether you are measuring everything. And herein lies an issue of, do we even know everything we need to measure?

What if our live stock releases some sort of chemical into the water that negatively affect other live stock, and that builds up over time? Water changes help not only replenish necessary stuff, but also remove unwanted stuff.

With that said, I had aquariums where I had not done a water change for like, half a year. And apparently there are people who have not done water changes for longer. So seems like it may indeed be the case where yeah, if you are 100% confident your water parameters is fine, then you don't need to do a water change.

 

[Jekyl]

Trace elements are also important for coral. There's a lot of them that most people don't test for. That being said, there's a lot of people who don't do water changes often.

 

[DxMarinefish]

Whether you want to do water changes or not, I would recommend you test on a regular basis.
I don’t do water changes on my system as standard. New waiter will go in when I am QT’ing or acclimatising new stock because I use DT water for this and top up with fresh water, usually NSW. But I have a system that’s been running for 2007.

i do an ICP test every 4 months now and adjust as needed.
It all depends on your demand, and life stock.
Water changes also do not replacing all your tanks demands because some ions may be depleted more than others and water changes just assume everything needs supplementing equally.
Regarding removing toxins, well depending on your volume and the quantity of what is released in your tank water changes may not resolve your issue.
there are media and resins you can use to reduce the typical toxins that can get into reef tanks.

I would suggest regular test for the basics N0 2/3/4, alk,PO, etc and then every 3-4 months an ICP test. Then you will know your demand and make an objective decision.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Ive only tested salt and tempature of my aquarium so far. 1 month or so in. Lol
D

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

All about supply and demand. Sounds like you got it.
D

 

[pledosophy]

I have been able to go years at a time with my SPS dominant system without doing water changes.

I do test often, I carbon dose, run a calcium reactor, good skimmer and high flow rate. The only time I added salt water was after I had done a lot of fragging and needed to replace what I had taken out to fill the baggies.


It is very possible to set a system up without water changes, easier now than ever. Research Trident System.

 

[blasterman]

Water changes help lower nitrates, remove any unwanted chemicals/impurities, and make up lost trace elements. But if all those are good. Technically a water change wouldn't really benefit the tank right i imagine. If you're monitoring all parameters, and everything is in check; and your tank and corals looks good. is there any reason to do a water change?
This is assuming the tank isn't heavily stocked with SPSs and have a high demand for trace elements... but i imagine for lower nutrient systems, top offs can probably make up a lot of trace elements right?

How much money you want to bet on the trace element thing?

Salt mix makers don't have any standard in regards to trace elements and the reef industry can't even agree on what a trace element is.

Lots of us run takes with little or no water changes because we are nutrient negative. If water changes were required for reef health we would not be capable of doing this.

Water changes do not reset a tank back to default or like NSW. They basically facilitate a nutrient export.

 

[Deep]

How much money you want to bet on the trace element thing?

Salt mix makers don't have any standard in regards to trace elements and the reef industry can't even agree on what a trace element is.

Lots of us run takes with little or no water changes because we are nutrient negative. If water changes were required for reef health we would not be capable of doing this.

Water changes do not reset a tank back to default or like NSW. They basically facilitate a nutrient export.

I Dont understand what you are saying.
if i started with a fresh salt mix in a tank, then 2 weeks later I change water it is bound to reset whatever percentage I changed to where I started. So for example If my corals used potassium, and I did a large enough water change I will have more potassium than before the change.
Also I can test for potassium or strontium or whatever - so I am not guessing that the levels fell.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Water changes help lower nitrates, remove any unwanted chemicals/impurities, and make up lost trace elements. But if all those are good. Technically a water change wouldn't really benefit the tank right i imagine. If you're monitoring all parameters, and everything is in check; and your tank and corals looks good. is there any reason to do a water change?
This is assuming the tank isn't heavily stocked with SPSs and have a high demand for trace elements... but i imagine for lower nutrient systems, top offs can probably make up a lot of trace elements right?

Water changes are not needed, obviously, if everything is good, but there are many things you cannot measure (like organics that may be toxins). Water changes serve to minimize increases in those sorts of things.

Water Changes in Reef Aquaria by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Conclusion
Water changes are a good way to help control certain processes that serve to drive reef aquarium water away from its starting purity. Some things build up in certain situations (organics, certain metals, sodium, chloride, nitrate, phosphate, sulfate, etc.), and some things become depleted (calcium, magnesium, alkalinity, strontium, silica, etc.). Water changes can serve to help correct these imbalances, and in some cases may be the best way to deal with them. Water changes of 15-30% per month (whether carried out once a month, daily or continuously) have been shown in the graphs above to be useful in moderating the drift of these different seawater components from starting levels. For most reef aquaria, I recommend such changes as good aquarium husbandry. In general, the more the better, if carried out appropriately, and if the new salt water is of appropriate quality.

Calcium and alkalinity, being rapidly depleted in most reef aquaria, are not well controlled, or even significantly impacted by such small water changes. In order to maintain them with no other supplements, changes on the order of 30-50% PER DAY would be required. Nevertheless, that option may still be a good choice for very small aquaria, especially if the changes are slow and automatic.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have been able to go years at a time with my SPS dominant system without doing water changes.

I do test often, I carbon dose, run a calcium reactor, good skimmer and high flow rate. The only time I added salt water was after I had done a lot of fragging and needed to replace what I had taken out to fill the baggies.


It is very possible to set a system up without water changes, easier now than ever. Research Trident System.

Agreed.

But there's still a question, IMO, if that same system might be even "better" with water changes to control things you cannot or do not measure.

 

[DxMarinefish]

Agreed.

But there's still a question, IMO, if that same system might be even "better" with water changes to control things you cannot or do not measure.

If we cannot measure "things", then how do we know that a particular salt mix brand has these "things" we cannot measure, or has these "things" at the ratio/quantity required by the tank at that particular time the water change is made?

There is enough supplements on the market today to effectively compensate for No Water changes, or minimal water changes for most aquariums systems today.
There is enough resins/media to use to extract most nasties on the market today for most aquariums today.
There are enough nutrient cycling and export mechanism today to effectively run tanks without the worry of depleting any "things" you cannot measure.

I like the article and every reefer should read it, but also read up on practical systems that have thrived on little to minimum water changes.

People say "if you cannot test it then why add it", well IMO that also goes for water changes.

 

[Dallascowboys16]

If we cannot measure "things", then how do we know that a particular salt mix brand has these "things" we cannot measure, or has these "things" at the ratio/quantity required by the tank at that particular time the water change is made?

There is enough supplements on the market today to effectively compensate for No Water changes, or minimal water changes for most aquariums systems today.
There is enough resins/media to use to extract most nasties on the market today for most aquariums today.
There are enough nutrient cycling and export mechanism today to effectively run tanks without the worry of depleting any "things" you cannot measure.

I like the article and every reefer should read it, but also read up on practical systems that have thrived on little to minimum water changes.

People say "if you cannot test it then why add it", well IMO that also goes for water changes.

While I agree that the replenishment argument for water changes is overstated, it certainly seems like water changes are a good way to maintain a relatively stable system and prevent significant drift in the levels of certain things in our tanks (thinking more about keeping heavy metals and pollutants low rather than any replenishment of elements). I would say that going without any water changes is totally valid if you know what you are doing but in my opinion it is like playing on expert mode. In other words, for people who do not plan on ICP testing every few months and owning a bunch of different additives and filter media, a small water change once a month is a practical way to prevent a negative buildup of pollutants.

 

[jarviz]

Agreed.

But there's still a question, IMO, if that same system might be even "better" with water changes to control things you cannot or do not measure.

Is this where carbon comes in handy? can carbon be left in a tank 24/7 with no detrimental effects?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If we cannot measure "things", then how do we know that a particular salt mix brand has these "things" we cannot measure, or has these "things" at the ratio/quantity required by the tank at that particular time the water change is made?

There is enough supplements on the market today to effectively compensate for No Water changes, or minimal water changes for most aquariums systems today.
There is enough resins/media to use to extract most nasties on the market today for most aquariums today.
There are enough nutrient cycling and export mechanism today to effectively run tanks without the worry of depleting any "things" you cannot measure.

I like the article and every reefer should read it, but also read up on practical systems that have thrived on little to minimum water changes.

People say "if you cannot test it then why add it", well IMO that also goes for water changes.

I am aware of no water change tanks. They can be great tanks. Would they be better with water changes? Maybe, maybe not. There's no possible way to know for sure without trying.

Let me suggest some things that no hobbyists can test for and which water changes may be the only way to remove them. Folks not doing water changes are just hoping that they are not a problem in their tank.

There are some things we do not want any of, and we know are not in salt mixes. Organic toxins from corals, algae, cyanobacteria, dinos, etc. Many of these have been shown to be a problem for other marine organisms. Water changes help remove them. Do other methods? Maybe, maybe not.

There are also contaminants such as organotin compounds from plastics that can be difficult to remove and can be toxic at some level. Water changes certainly remove a portion of them each time. Do other methods? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is this where carbon comes in handy? can carbon be left in a tank 24/7 with no detrimental effects?

GAC is useful, certainly. I always used it 24/7 even with water changes.

But neither GAC nor Purigen nor any of the other materials on the market bind everything one might be concerned with, and almost none of the things we might be concerned with have been tested for binding to any given material.

 

[jarviz]

GAC is useful, certainly. I always used it 24/7 even with water changes.

But neither GAC nor Purigen nor any of the other materials on the market bind everything one might be concerned with, and almost none of the things we might be concerned with have been tested for binding to any given material.

Lol. Thanks.. I just did my 10% water change last night after reading these posts. I always battling low nitrates which is why I stopped for a little bit. Easier and safer to just dose sodium nitrate at this point.