Went From GFO to Seachem's Phosguard and I'm never Going Back

[Bouncingsoul39]

Long time GFO (granular ferric oxide) user for controlling Phosphates. Despite the "high phosphate is OK" trend in the hobby lately, my scientific research based approach to coral reef keeping (low nutrients aiming for NSW levels) has served me well over the years. It is a fact that phosphate limits calcification in corals and that fact is enough for me to work to limit it. Anyway, GFO is messy and expensive. Seachem's Phosguard isn't messy and is cheap. Sold.

 

[dbl]

100% agreed. I made the switch about 3 years ago. I find it just as effective and far easier to use.

 

[mcarroll]

GFO is messy and expensive. Seachem's Phosguard isn't messy and is cheap. Sold.

Should we call it GAO – Granulated Aluminum Oxide? Or actually PAO, since it's pelleted?

With you here. I think there are other trade-offs in your favor as well. (Maybe some the against you too...not sure.)

PAO is highly effective, I know that....it has always seemed "more aggressive" than GFO to me, so perhaps "follow instructions" can be emphasized. Still needs rinsing, for example, but it's easy.

It is a fact that phosphate limits calcification in corals and that fact is enough for me to work to limit it.

This fact has become more and more crowded by other facts.

Turns out it's situational.

It also turns out that slower growth could be a good thing, not a bad one.

Or at least that faster growth is not an advantage per se.

Corals that grow more slowly are more resilient and repair faster, for example. The converse is true for faster growing corals.

Faster growth = Better is a coral farmer's point of view. Looking at yields.

That's not really what most folks care about - they want healthy corals that look great.

Speedy growth can actually be an annoyance....I'd pay $$ if some of my corals would grow slower or even stop!

It's also true that as a tank matures, more and more nutrients will become entrained in the tanks nutrient cycles....so even when nutrient levels appear low in the water, even when there's little algae, the tank is far from "low nutrient". The picture and scene are far different on a new tank....nutrients in the water may be all that's holding the whole ecosystem up...

 

[WallyB]

100% agreed. I made the switch about 3 years ago. I find it just as effective and far easier to use.

Excellent. Found someone who uses Phosguard ( @dbl ). I just started using it and find it different from GFO (Slower, Exhausts Faster)

So first I did find out the Myth about Phosguard releasing Aluminum (SAFE.....if used properly: rinsed before use, and not tumbled to break it down).
Randy Holmes Article with scientific proof https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/7/chemistry

However I need some input on how to use Phosguard properly

I have 110 Gallon tank with 50 Gallon Sump so roughly about 150 Gallons of water. No algae issues since my Algae scrubber keeps DT clean.

My Phosphate is 0.20-0.25 (stable range) and my target is to get to 0.1 STABLE.

I actually called Seachem since my experience with Phosgaurd is a bit confusing.
I explained to them that I was using Phosguard in media bags IN SUMP flow areas, and it would bring P down a tiny bit, and stop.
Then I decided to put the Phosgard into a Two Little Fishies reactor. 1 Cup since the instructions say 1/3 Cup per 50 Gallons.
That is how I got my P down down from 0.25 to 0.21 and again things Stalled. After about 4 days.

Seachem explained to me that Phosguard (Aluminum based Remover) is lighter than typical (Iron Based GFO).
It reduces phosphate slower than GFO, and exhausts faster than GFO.

That is fine by me since I don't want to drop P too fast, since I have nothing but SPS in my Tank. (QUICK DROPS in P can be deadly to SPS)

However I want to know when it's time to replace Phosguard, and how much of a reduction I can expect.
Normally when I used GFO in my reactor, I would test the Reactor output, and would get P=0.00
When reactor output was no longer 0.00, that would mean GFO is exhausted and time to replace.

This is not the case with Phosguard. My Reactor output is not 0.00 even if fresh, and I would say not much lower than Tank P Level.

That is where Seachem explained I might need to used more than a cup.
Partly due to the fact that Phosphates are being added daily by feeding fish/corals.

Also Seachem explained that Phosguard has a capacity to reduce P by 3 mg/L. I'm not exactly sure what that means.
[mg/L is ppm] but how do you use that number to figure out capacity of Phosguard on 150 Gallons of Water with P=0.25 ppm. (What will P drop on that 1 CUP of Phosguard? Doesn't matter to me how fast, just how much, based on water volume)
Know that calculation would help to know how my (P in ppm) can (1 cup) absorb (per volume of water).

Or is there another methodology on how to use Phosguard effectively, and under control?

 

[dbl]

I can only comment about my particular use and situation. I have about the same amount of water volume as you (150g +/-). I use about 1.75 cups in a reactor with the flow set to have the slightest of tumble. I mean the Phosguard just barely tumbles at all. I rinse it thoroughly before putting it in play and actually put the reactor discharge tube in the filter sock for the first day or so after replacing the media.

It gets changed normally every three to four weeks. Admittedly that's probably way too long between changes but I let the glass tell me when it's time to change. When the glass starts to get dirty "quicker than normal", I know it's time to change it.

Now, I realize that isn't very scientific and I'm sure it's exhausted way earlier than when I replace it, but this seems to work for me. In the spirit of full disclosure, I rarely test my water anymore. But when I do, and I just looked back through the history, my PO4 has always tested between .03 and .11 using the Hanna Ultra Low tester.

I also have a decent size refugium that grows Chaeto very well. That too plays a role in this but again, I don't take a scientific approach to things. I've found a balance that seems to work for my tank. I also live by the motto...if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Probably not a lot of help but that's my story.

 

[WallyB]

I can only comment about my particular use and situation. I have about the same amount of water volume as you (150g +/-). I use about 1.75 cups in a reactor with the flow set to have the slightest of tumble. I mean the Phosguard just barely tumbles at all. I rinse it thoroughly before putting it in play and actually put the reactor discharge tube in the filter sock for the first day or so after replacing the media.

It gets changed normally every three to four weeks. Admittedly that's probably way too long between changes but I let the glass tell me when it's time to change. When the glass starts to get dirty "quicker than normal", I know it's time to change it.

Now, I realize that isn't very scientific and I'm sure it's exhausted way earlier than when I replace it, but this seems to work for me. In the spirit of full disclosure, I rarely test my water anymore. But when I do, and I just looked back through the history, my PO4 has always tested between .03 and .11 using the Hanna Ultra Low tester.

I also have a decent size refugium that grows Chaeto very well. That too plays a role in this but again, I don't take a scientific approach to things. I've found a balance that seems to work for my tank. I also live by the motto...if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Probably not a lot of help but that's my story.

@dbl. That's the most perfect answer I was looking for (running experience).
Way better than the Scientific Seachem answer.

I don't exactly need numbers, I just need a feel for the product.
I too have Cheato in my Algae Scrubber, and that is growing. Plus I also have the Sump loaded with Seachem Matrix (for nitrate Reduction).

I can see myself running Phosguard exactly like you are. Exactly!
I just want to get my PO4, on same Hanna tester into your range (approx. 0.1) SLOWLY.

So thanks so much, you just gave me confidence to continue exactly what I am doing. "Waiting for Slow PO4 reduction, till steady state is achieved using Phosguard in Reasonable quantities to offset P04 input"
To help get there a LITTLE faster, I am doing Extra Water Change (no harm in that).

THANK you! PERFECT ANSWER.

 

[dbl]

@dbl. That's the most perfect answer I was looking for (running experience).
Way better than the Scientific Seachem answer.

I don't exactly need numbers, I just need a feel for the product.
I too have Cheato in my Algae Scrubber, and that is growing. Plus I also have the Sump loaded with Seachem Matrix (for nitrate Reduction).

I can see myself running Phosguard exactly like you are. Exactly!
I just want to get my PO4, on same Hanna tester into your range (approx. 0.1) SLOWLY.

So thanks so much, you just gave me confidence to continue exactly what I am doing. "Waiting for Slow PO4 reduction, till steady state is achieved using Phosguard in Reasonable quantities to offset P04 input"
To help get there a LITTLE faster, I am doing Extra Water Change (no harm in that).

THANK you! PERFECT ANSWER.

Glad it helped. Just bring it down slowly as you've described. Hopefully you'll find the balance and be able to keep it consistent. It took me a while to find the "formula" for my system but eventually got there.

 

[NeedMoreReef]

Also stopped using GFO in reactor. to messy, extra pump to service, less room in sump. been using brightwells similar product for about a year in 80 gallon mixed reef. I place about 1/2 cup in mesh bag, rinse with RO/DI x 2 then tank water x 2. place in sump switch every 6 months. alternate with chemi pure.

 

[WallyB]

Glad it helped. Just bring it down slowly as you've described. Hopefully you'll find the balance and be able to keep it consistent. It took me a while to find the "formula" for my system but eventually got there.

One more thing that I've been considering, but am very hesitant since my DT full of SPS Frags have been doing extremely well with the slow PO4 reduction.
Been thinking of adding a tiny bit of Curpisorb, at the output of the Phosguard reactor. Curprisorb is tuned resin to remove Copper, but it also will remove all Heavy Metals like Aluminum. So if there is any coming out of the Phosguard, it will be polished away.
I wouldn't put much, since running too much Cuprisorb, too long, can strip off all metals including the needed trace elements.
To counteract any trace element metal stripping, my weekly water change would balance that.

 

[dbl]

One more thing that I've been considering, but am very hesitant since my DT full of SPS Frags have been doing extremely well with the slow PO4 reduction.
Been thinking of adding a tiny bit of Curpisorb, at the output of the Phosguard reactor. Curprisorb is tuned resin to remove Copper, but it also will remove all Heavy Metals like Aluminum. So if there is any coming out of the Phosguard, it will be polished away.
I wouldn't put much, since running too much Cuprisorb, too long, can strip off all metals including the needed trace elements.
To counteract any trace element metal stripping, my weekly water change would balance that.

Can't be much help there Wally as I've never used Curpisorb. I've never noticed anything leaching from the PhosGuard so I haven't worried about it. Not saying it isn't there, just that I've never notice any negative effects.

My fear would be what you shared and I dont have an answer - would it also remove beneficial trace elements as well? I'm afraid we'll have to wait for a user of the product to chime in.

 

[WallyB]

Can't be much help there Wally as I've never used Curpisorb. I've never noticed anything leaching from the PhosGuard so I haven't worried about it. Not saying it isn't there, just that I've never notice any negative effects.

My fear would be what you shared and I dont have an answer - would it also remove beneficial trace elements as well? I'm afraid we'll have to wait for a user of the product to chime in.

Thank @dbl, I will wait for someone else to reply.

But have done some digging. Cuprisorb is harmless, if used sparingly.
Curprisob is similar to Kent Heavy Metal Resin but more tuned for Copper removal.

It doesn't hurt to run it to polish up water from any Heavy metals, from things that have rusted in tank like Metal clamps, magnets, impellers, etc that are corroding (leaching metals into the tank).
It would also polish up any tiny amount of Aluminum if Phosgaurd does leach a bit. More thinking long term accumulated levels using of Phosguard.
I wouldn't run any Metal Resin continuously (similar to carbon which also strips some trace elements). And I do Water changes weekly so Trace element levels will be fine.

I did buy a Triton Lab ICP test kit, and am waiting for the tank to stabilize before sending in a test. That will tell all.

 

[jd371]

My tank has been running for over 3 years now. I started with GFO but stopped for the same reasons as everyone else stated, also for the life of me I couldn't get the GFO to tumble correctly, it would start out fine but by the second or third day it clumped. Switched to Phosgaurd and have been using it since.

 

[Ly78]

You can try those polyfilter pads that are highly recommended if there is a need for metal absorbtion

 

[jd371]

I've been running the Phosguard in the reactor but I'm battling high Nitrates so I might need the reactor to run biopellets. If I put the Phosguard in a media bag and put that in the filter sock will it be as effective as if I ran it in the reactor?

 

[WallyB]

I've been running the Phosguard in the reactor but I'm battling high Nitrates so I might need the reactor to run biopellets. If I put the Phosguard in a media bag and put that in the filter sock will it be as effective as if I ran it in the reactor?

I called Seachem, they said yes. So long as flow in high thru Media Bags. Also clean the mesh bag as it get's plugged. (rinse phosguard before use)
Yes, I am slowly bring down P with Phosguard, but I too need a Solution to bring down N from 25ppm to 5-10. Doesn't have to been much lower for me.
I did consider NOPox, but don't want to get hooked. I have no experience with BioPellets, and understand you do also have to be careful using pellet for issues like Bacteria Blooms, and Bacteria Crashes.

 

[jd371]

Thanks! That's where I keep Nitrates at 5 -10, but since late August my Nitrates have been at 25 - 50. Before this happened the only changes I've made was going from biweekly wc's to once a month so that might be a factor. I'm going back to biweekly wc's and added some chaeto to the the fuge. So far the chaeto isn't doing much, not dying and not growing either. I'm going to give the chaeto another couple of weeks to see if it starts growing and continue with the biweekly wc's and if there is still no change to the Nitrates I will set up the biopellet reactor.

 

[dbl]

Thanks! That's where I keep Nitrates at 5 -10, but since late August my Nitrates have been at 25 - 50. Before this happened the only changes I've made was going from biweekly wc's to once a month so that might be a factor. I'm going back to biweekly wc's and added some chaeto to the the fuge. So far the chaeto isn't doing much, not dying and not growing either. I'm going to give the chaeto another couple of weeks to see if it starts growing and continue with the biweekly wc's and if there is still no change to the Nitrates I will set up the biopellet reactor.

What are you using as a light source for your chaeto?

 

[jd371]

I'm using this one that has done a great job of growing chaeto earlier this year. The chaeto died off when I used Flucanozole to treat some algae in the tank.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LX1EO3W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[WallyB]

What are you using as a light source for your chaeto?

RED LED's, and a couple of BLUE LEDS. (DIY grow light) I made a FLAT RECTANGULAR panel from LED's Bought from Steve's LED, and a current driver.
The panel of 10 LEDS on a heat sink (8 red, 2 blue), are mounted outside of my Sump. They shine into a black box chamber in Sump thru Sump Glass. Where Water flow from Tank Return.
It worked great, but I improved things with another 4 LEDS on a STRIP shining down (from above chamber).

CHeato sits in that box, and water from DT flows thru cheato before enter rest of sump.
I used to grow Hair Like Macro Algae on Screen (like an Upflow ATS).
Month ago I pulled the screens, and went with a Clump of Cheato.
It Tripled in size in a month.

I can post, or PM you the panel design, LED/Driver PARTS LIST, the sump chamber design, since I documented and photographed it all.

But sometimes it's easier to buy those LED PLANT Grow Lamps/Bulbs with RED/BLUE led combo, built right in. Plenty available on Amazon, and Aliexpress.

 

[theKoolAidMan]

I have a BRS dual chambered GFO and Carbon reactor. Can I just pull out the GFO and replace it with Phosguard or does it have to be run differently?