What else is required for keeping Acropora?

[jnbrex]

I set up a 33g Red Sea MAX NANO G2 XL about 30 days ago. I used real uncured Australian live rock, but there wasn't too much die-off and the cycle completed on day 18 with the addition of bottled bacteria each day. I did a few large water changes and the nutrients are now low. I have one fish, one shrimp, and I feed a small amount of frozen mysis and sinking pellets daily. Two more small fish are arriving on Friday. The fish, GSP, and the shrimp seem to be thriving. I picked up a Montipora palawanensis yesterday, and so far, so good.

This is my third reef tank and I think I understand the requirements to keep Acropora alive, but I want to see if there's anything I'm missing or if there's any new technology I should think about getting I'm missing before getting a few frags.

• Salinity 1.025
• pH 8.2
• Alkalinity 9.3 dKH (down from 9.6 yesterday).
• Calcium 441 ppm
• Magnesium 1205 ppm
• Ammonia 0 ppm
• Nitrite 0 ppm
• Nitrate 3.5 ppm
• Phosphate: 0.10 ppm

I have some questions:

1. Should I upgrade the ReefLED50 light that came with the tank? The tank is roughly 20" x 20" x 20". If so, which light should I upgrade to? I've read that the Radion XR15 might be better since it's a more powerful light with better spread. Or is it overkill for a 33g tank?
2. Since I'd be getting frags, not colonies, would the Alk and calcium uptake initially be high enough to have to dose with 2 part or similar, with weekly 15% water changes? What about with 30%?
3. Should I set up a full testing + dosing system for full 24/7 Alk+Calcium+Magnesium control like Hydros or Neptune before attempting to keep Acropora? I have Hanna checkers that I used to get these measurements, but I don't see myself testing any of these params besides Alk on a daily basis since it takes a long time. I can test the other params weekly.
4. Is a pH monitoring and control system recommended? Since I'm in an apartment, I'm worried about pH dropping when we have guests over.

And in general, is there anything else I might be missing?

Here's a pic:

 

[Lavey29]

Your tank is still going to be unstable for awhile even with live rock it will need to mature for multiple months before SPS can be added successfully. Very experienced reefers can do it sooner but us average guys fail. Lights - depends on the par you get. You want 350 to 400 at the top 250 mid tank and 75 to 125 bottom. Dosing won't be needed for awhile just weekly water changes then progress to hand dosing and eventually a dosing system for alk and cal primary.

 

[jnbrex]

Your tank is still going to be unstable for awhile even with live rock it will need to mature for multiple months before SPS can be added successfully. Very experienced reefers can do it sooner but us average guys fail.

I've heard this a lot, but what does "unstable" really mean? Which parameters usually swing, and can it be prevented? I don't want to wait multiple months, if possible.

 

[Lavey29]

I've heard this a lot, but what does "unstable" really mean? Which parameters usually swing, and can it be prevented? I don't want to wait multiple months, if possible.

Well primarily alk, nitrates and phosphate. I tried some easy tester SPS at 9 months and failed. After a year my tank went through an evolution and became very stable and predictable. Added a total or 38 SPS frags which all grew into colonies and mini colonies with no failures. I've given stuff away now and trying some different acros now that are more challenging. A good indicator is if you have abundant coralline in your tank. There is nothing wrong with getting a few inexpensive acros and testing your luck but even with the live rock you're going to have ugly phases the first year. Very experienced reefers can put corals in on day one with success but not me.

 

[Biokabe]

I've heard this a lot, but what does "unstable" really mean? Which parameters usually swing, and can it be prevented? I don't want to wait multiple months, if possible.

Honestly, the "instability" that we talk about is rather difficult to measure. Although there are some parameters that we can measure, the stability we're talking about is usually in things that are more difficult to measure, such as bacterial colonies or microfauna density.

There's a lot going on in our tanks that is very hard to measure objectively, which is why you hear people say that you need to wait for a while for your tank to "mature" before you can handle more difficult corals. It's not that there is necessarily a parameter we're looking for. It's that there's an uncertain quality that SPS tanks need to have to be successful, and that quality usually doesn't manifest until your tank has gone through most of the "ugly" phases and developed into a tank that can support acros.

You can try them earlier than a year, and you might have good luck with it. Certainly I think you're more likely to have achieved that quality with oceanic live rock - did that rock come to you wet, or was it dry when you received it?

If you're matching the major measurable parameters, and your light is strong enough, I'd recommend starting off with a cheap, basic acropora like a Green Slimer - something that you won't mind replacing later on, or losing if it turns out your tank isn't ready for it. Or you can wait longer and start bringing in acropora after your rocks have a bit more color to them. Just remember that in reefing, only disasters tend to happen quickly.

Personally, I'd wait a little bit longer - either until you go through and conquer the "ugly" phases, or until you get to a year without the ugly phases cropping up. But it's your tank and your money.

 

[braaap]

Your question is "What else is required for keeping acropora?"


My answer to you is 6-8 more months considering your tank is 30 days old.

 

[Lavey29]

Honestly, the "instability" that we talk about is rather difficult to measure. Although there are some parameters that we can measure, the stability we're talking about is usually in things that are more difficult to measure, such as bacterial colonies or microfauna density.

There's a lot going on in our tanks that is very hard to measure objectively, which is why you hear people say that you need to wait for a while for your tank to "mature" before you can handle more difficult corals. It's not that there is necessarily a parameter we're looking for. It's that there's an uncertain quality that SPS tanks need to have to be successful, and that quality usually doesn't manifest until your tank has gone through most of the "ugly" phases and developed into a tank that can support acros.

You can try them earlier than a year, and you might have good luck with it. Certainly I think you're more likely to have achieved that quality with oceanic live rock - did that rock come to you wet, or was it dry when you received it?

If you're matching the major measurable parameters, and your light is strong enough, I'd recommend starting off with a cheap, basic acropora like a Green Slimer - something that you won't mind replacing later on, or losing if it turns out your tank isn't ready for it. Or you can wait longer and start bringing in acropora after your rocks have a bit more color to them. Just remember that in reefing, only disasters tend to happen quickly.

Personally, I'd wait a little bit longer - either until you go through and conquer the "ugly" phases, or until you get to a year without the ugly phases cropping up. But it's your tank and your money.

Well stated, yes the overall biome is critical.

 

[happyhourhero]

Basically, if you can grow coralline, you can start with sps. When you already can guess what your nutrient uptake will be and you are no longer adding or removing filter media and you know your system really well, you can keep sps. As others have mentioned, you can try some hardier sps whenever you want, just maybe don’t go buying speciosa right out the gate.

 

[jnbrex]

Thanks for the input everyone. I believe in the general wisdom of waiting for the tank's biome to become more established but I'm curious if it's possible for me to keep acros earlier in a tank's life since there's no telling how long I'll be able to keep this tank.

I think I'm going to get a few cheap acro frags next weekend and see if any survive. I'm not putting anything from the ocean into the tank other than the rock, so it's not like it'll be harming the environment if they die, just my wallet.

You can try them earlier than a year, and you might have good luck with it. Certainly I think you're more likely to have achieved that quality with oceanic live rock - did that rock come to you wet, or was it dry when you received it?

The rock came wet, in a sealed styrofoam box with wet newspaper. It looked like this when it arrived:

If you're matching the major measurable parameters, and your light is strong enough, I'd recommend starting off with a cheap, basic acropora like a Green Slimer - something that you won't mind replacing later on, or losing if it turns out your tank isn't ready for it.

Do you think the ReefLED 50 is strong enough for the tank dimensions? I have it running at 100% blues, 50% whites (18k).

 

[Lavey29]

Thanks for the input everyone. I believe in the general wisdom of waiting for the tank's biome to become more established but I'm curious if it's possible for me to keep acros earlier in a tank's life since there's no telling how long I'll be able to keep this tank.

I think I'm going to get a few cheap acro frags next weekend and see if any survive. I'm not putting anything from the ocean into the tank other than the rock, so it's not like it'll be harming the environment if they die, just my wallet.


The rock came wet, in a sealed styrofoam box with wet newspaper. It looked like this when it arrived:

Do you think the ReefLED 50 is strong enough for the tank dimensions? I have it running at 100% blues, 50% whites (18k).

You won't know unless you par check it.

 

[AKReefing]

I've heard this a lot, but what does "unstable" really mean? Which parameters usually swing, and can it be prevented? I don't want to wait multiple months, if possible.

Your tank will continue to cycle for a while. A lot of successful aquarists will wait until month 3 or beyond. #1: add pods. #2: you need spectrum and intensity. Acros need a lot of PAR, generally above 300 IMO. #3: Flow.

 

[AKReefing]

Thanks for the input everyone. I believe in the general wisdom of waiting for the tank's biome to become more established but I'm curious if it's possible for me to keep acros earlier in a tank's life since there's no telling how long I'll be able to keep this tank.

PATIENCE! Nothing good in a reef tank happens fast. Everything bad can happen overnight.

I think I'm going to get a few cheap acro frags next weekend and see if any survive. I'm not putting anything from the ocean into the tank other than the rock, so it's not like it'll be harming the environment if they die, just my wallet.

I'd advise that you empty your wallet and send the contents to me. It will be less wasteful.
Seriously, why the rush?

 

[19Mateo83]

stability is the #1 most important thing for SPS. That goes for all of your parameters. If you are having swings you’re not ready. Also, building a diverse microbiome is important as well. That means not only the bacteria’s but also the small critters. I highly recommend adding as many types of pods as you can get your hands on and dose a little phyto. This will help with some of the uglies you will go through and out compete Dino’s and such. Some folks will say that they are not needed but they do play an important part in the ecosystem you are creating. The more diverse your clean up crew the more ways your system has to process waste and excess algae and food the better off you will be. You can also start with easy, cheaper sps before testing your luck with acros. Birdsnests, montis and stylos can be good indicators of your tanks development. On a tank your size, personally I would throw a Kessil a360x tuna blue on it with spectral controller and roll. It will be more light than you will ever need, it doesn’t give you the disco ball effect like other brands and you get the shimmer like the old school halides.

 

[apb03]

It's really hard to put a finger on but I think maturity is what you need to aim for. I found acros really didn't do much until the 7month mark. Before that they would either die or stagnate.

Coralline as mentioned before is a good indication that you are close. Definitely start with easy ones like the green Slimer, bonsai and the like early on and stay away from pricey frags. Especially if you plan on adding acros before the 6 month mark.

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

I pretty much agree with what has been stated above. If you don't have a PAR meter, see if one of your LFS rents them, or perhaps a local reefer has one that you can borrow. In my area our reef club has one that you can check out for a week. Maybe join your local reef club and see if they have one. It's the only real way to know what the light intensity is in different areas of your tank. Regarding the biome, there are ways to speed up the process of maturity, and you've already done one by getting actual liverock instead of starting with dry rock. You can also order several products from Ido Pacific Sea Farms that will help to establish a natural biome (as opposed to bacteria in bottles). They have a 9 for 99.95 mix and match deal. If you order that get the Liquid N- Reducer, Live Sand Activator, and WonderMud along with whatever else you want from the list. These 3 products are basically Pacific ocean (collected in Hawaii) live sand with lots of bacteria. We actually order this every year to replenish the good bacteria in our systems. IPSF.com has been around forever and Gerald is a great guy. You'll still have to be patient, but it may cut down on the length of time needed to establish the biome. Try something easy like a Bali Green Slimer and once you see actual growth such as encrusting or growth tips, then you know you're ready to try some others. Coraline growth is an excellent indicator that your tank can support Acropora.

 

[Lavey29]

stability is the #1 most important thing for SPS. That goes for all of your parameters. If you are having swings you’re not ready. Also, building a diverse microbiome is important as well. That means not only the bacteria’s but also the small critters. I highly recommend adding as many types of pods as you can get your hands on and dose a little phyto. This will help with some of the uglies you will go through and out compete Dino’s and such. Some folks will say that they are not needed but they do play an important part in the ecosystem you are creating. The more diverse your clean up crew the more ways your system has to process waste and excess algae and food the better off you will be. You can also start with easy, cheaper sps before testing your luck with acros. Birdsnests, montis and stylos can be good indicators of your tanks development. On a tank your size, personally I would throw a Kessil a360x tuna blue on it with spectral controller and roll. It will be more light than you will ever need, it doesn’t give you the disco ball effect like other brands and you get the shimmer like the old school halides.

Good choice, Kessil would be great low profile on that tank.

 

[jnbrex]

You won't know unless you par check it.

Your tank will continue to cycle for a while. A lot of successful aquarists will wait until month 3 or beyond. #1: add pods. #2: you need spectrum and intensity. Acros need a lot of PAR, generally above 300 IMO. #3: Flow.

On a tank your size, personally I would throw a Kessil a360x tuna blue on it with spectral controller and roll. It will be more light than you will ever need, it doesn’t give you the disco ball effect like other brands and you get the shimmer like the old school halides.

It's so expensive to buy a PAR meter and it's a hassle to rent but maybe it's the smart decision. According to the Red Sea website I should have this PAR distribution with >=300 PAR in the upper middle of the tank. This graphic isn't that useful since it's not 3d though.

I highly recommend adding as many types of pods as you can get your hands on and dose a little phyto. This will help with some of the uglies you will go through and out compete Dino’s and such. Some folks will say that they are not needed but they do play an important part in the ecosystem you are creating. The more diverse your clean up crew the more ways your system has to process waste and excess algae and food the better off you will be. You can also start with easy, cheaper sps before testing your luck with acros. Birdsnests, montis and stylos can be good indicators of your tanks development. On a tank your size, personally I would throw a Kessil a360x tuna blue on it with spectral controller and roll. It will be more light than you will ever need, it doesn’t give you the disco ball effect like other brands and you get the shimmer like the old school halides.

I added 5280 pods and am dosing a capful of phyto every few days.

I added a monti palawanensis yesterday and it looks fine, but it's only been 36 hours so still way too early to say if it'll survive.

Why do you recommend the Kessil a360x tuna blue over the comparable Radion XR15 G6 blue?

 

[jnbrex]

Regarding the biome, there are ways to speed up the process of maturity, and you've already done one by getting actual liverock instead of starting with dry rock. You can also order several products from Ido Pacific Sea Farms that will help to establish a natural biome (as opposed to bacteria in bottles). They have a 9 for 99.95 mix and match deal. If you order that get the Liquid N- Reducer, Live Sand Activator, and WonderMud along with whatever else you want from the list. These 3 products are basically Pacific ocean (collected in Hawaii) live sand with lots of bacteria. We actually order this every year to replenish the good bacteria in our systems. IPSF.com has been around forever and Gerald is a great guy. You'll still have to be patient, but it may cut down on the length of time needed to establish the biome.

I haven't heard of these products. I'll look into them, thanks!

 

[Lavey29]

It's so expensive to buy a PAR meter and it's a hassle to rent but maybe it's the smart decision. According to the Red Sea website I should have this PAR distribution with >=300 PAR in the upper middle of the tank. This graphic isn't that useful since it's not 3d though.

I added 5280 pods and am dosing a capful of phyto every few days.

I added a monti palawanensis yesterday and it looks fine, but it's only been 36 hours so still way too early to say if it'll survive.

Why do you recommend the Kessil a360x tuna blue over the comparable Radion XR15 G6 blue?

I have XR15 lights and didn't know how week they were until I rented a par meter. Internet posts showed everything fine at 70%. I was shocked how low my par was and corals struggled. I raised to 100% intensity and my corals thrive now.

Try the free photone app and see what your par is at the water surface. It is surprisingly accurate.

 

[BigMonkeyBrain]

Thanks for the input everyone. I believe in the general wisdom of waiting for the tank's biome to become more established but I'm curious if it's possible for me to keep acros earlier in a tank's life since there's no telling how long I'll be able to keep this tank.

I think I'm going to get a few cheap acro frags next weekend and see if any survive. I'm not putting anything from the ocean into the tank other than the rock, so it's not like it'll be harming the environment if they die, just my wallet.


The rock came wet, in a sealed styrofoam box with wet newspaper. It looked like this when it arrived:

Do you think the ReefLED 50 is strong enough for the tank dimensions? I have it running at 100% blues, 50% whites (18k).

There should be a diversity of biome on that rock ( we did this years ago with success ). I would add it to the tank and add your sps corals. There are only a few sps corals that are truly hard to keep.

I would add the corals to the middle of the tank to start and in a few weeks move them higher and see how they acclimate to flow and lighting.

I should add: Stability means no large water changes !