What is happening to my soft corals?

[sixline]

First post!!

I've been having trouble migrating my tank from a FOWLR to one that includes soft corals. I've purchased green star polyps, zooanthids and toadstool leathers several times now, and everything eventually dies, or in some cases, never even opens at all after getting into my tank. For example, I recently bought some zoas, a pair of kenya trees and some GSP. The GSP never opened and the kenya trees withered away in two or three days. The zooanthids opened right away, but now are looking a bit more tentative.

I'm trying to figure out the issue.

Some preliminary information:

• 100g tank, set up for 10 years. Fish and inverts (snails, conch, urchin) never die.
  
  
• Good circulation with Ecotech vortex pumps
  
  
• Lighting is a pair of Hydra 26 LEDs using a time tested color algorithm from successful soft coral tanks
  
  
• RO/DI water for water changes and ATO (tested at 0.0 total dissolved solids)
  
  
• Reef crystals salt

I test my water on occasion, but to be honest I'm a bit skeptical of the accuracy of tests.

First of all, I tested some freshly mixed water. I got these numbers:

• specific gravity 1.025
  
  
• pH 8.3
  
  
• calcium 430ppm
  
  
• dKH 12.5 (Salifert) 12.3 (Red Sea)

I've only done that test once, but I test my tank water periodically and the results tend to be like this:

• specific gravity 1.025
  
  
• pH 8.2 + or - 0.1
  
  
• calcium 400ppm + or - 15ppm
  
  
• dKH 5.9 to 6.8 (Red Sea reading is usually lower than Salifert)
  
  
• Magnesium 1450ppm
  
  
• Phosphates/Ammonia 0
  
  
• Nitrates 5ppm

I wanted to get some opinions on what might be going on. I have a few guesses but don't want to say because I don't want to influence anyone's answer and also I am not too confident in my opinion. feel free to request any more information if needed.

 

[MERKEY]

Phosphate at 0 and alk that low might be part of the issue....

Definitely following

 

[Deschutes541]

What livestock do you have?

 

[sixline]

What livestock do you have?

The livestock has changed over time since I've tried this several times, but here is what I have currently:

- small engineer goby x7
- false percula clowns x2
- pajama cardinal x 5
- royal gramma
- lawnmower blenny
- pincushion urchin
- fighting conch x2
- turbo x2, trochus x2, nassarius x 10, cerith x 15

 

[DanConnor]

Alkalinity is pretty low.

What is your water change routine? Most problems can be fixed with water changes.
And what are you using to maintain alk and CA

 

[sixline]

Alkalinity is pretty low.

What is your water change routine? Most problems can be fixed with water changes.
And what are you using to maintain alk and CA

I've got two 55g rubbermaid containers. One is RO/DI auto-tipoff water, and the other is RO/DI freshwater. Once or twice a week, I pull 5 gallons from there, mix salt and do a 5 gallon water change. Total system volume is about 105 gallons.

I've considered keeping mixed saltwater in the 55 gallon rubbermaid I use for water changes instead of mixing up each time, but I didn't think that would make much of a difference.

As far as maintaining calcium and alkalinity, I don't do anything except for water changes. I have a Nilsen reactor I used for about a year to add kalkwasser and ran it for about a year, but it didn't seem to make that much difference in my (lack of) success with soft corals. To be clear, I don't have any other corals, I am mostly interested in softies.

 

[Hendrix]

Several Questions:
- Where are you getting your corals?
- Friend or LFS
- What did you transport them in?
How long are they in transport
- Are you, How are you? And where are you dipping your corals?
- Same goes for acclimating?
- Could you be using a contaminated container

 

[Auquanut]

This is just a personal opinion, but I would either increase your water change amount (not frequency) or manually dose Alk and Cal to increase them to about 8.0 and 420 to 440 respectively, and just slightly increase feeding to bring up nitrates and phosphates a bit. Wait and monitor your levels to maintain consistency and try again. Whatever you decide to do, do it slowly and monitor the effect on the tank.

 

[sixline]

Several Questions:
- Where are you getting your corals?
- Friend or LFS
- What did you transport them in?
How long are they in transport
- Are you, How are you? And where are you dipping your corals?
- Same goes for acclimating?
- Could you be using a contaminated container

I've tried several times now. Usually I buy from a couple of LFS, and transport in plastic bags/styros, but recently I've bought online from Blue Zoo and Boom Corals. I then drip acclimate for an hour or more in a 5g bucket or two. I always ask and make sure I don't mix water unless they've come from the same system. I never dip any of them.

 

[sixline]

This is just a personal opinion, but I would either increase your water change amount (not frequency) or manually dose Alk and Cal to increase them to about 8.0 and 420 to 440 respectively, and just slightly increase feeding to bring up nitrates and phosphates a bit. Wait and monitor your levels to maintain consistency and try again. Whatever you decide to do, do it slowly and monitor the effect on the tank.

I thought I was already feeding somewhat heavy, approximately a cube of formula one or equivalent a day. But you're right about my nitrates and phosphates being a bit low compared to what I've been seeing suggested for soft corals.

I think I'll try your advice and start doing 10 gallon changes instead of 5 and see if it helps anything.

 

[Hendrix]

I've tried several times now. Usually I buy from a couple of LFS, and transport in plastic bags/styros, but recently I've bought online from Blue Zoo and Boom Corals. I then drip acclimate for an hour or more in a 5g bucket or two. I always ask and make sure I don't mix water unless they've come from the same system. I never dip any of them.

Is your bucket pure?

Years ago mine was borrowed for cleaning the floor and put back in its place!! 2nd Wife hasn't done that! Just kidding still on 1st wife.

 

[sixline]

Is your bucket pure?

Years ago mine was borrowed for cleaning the floor and put back in its place!! 2nd Wife hasn't done that! Just kidding still on 1st wife.

Yeah, pretty sure they're clean. I buy my salt mix in buckets and always use one of those for water changes. I even have a special one marked for draining the old water to avoid contaminating the new. But really, they've all only had saltwater in them. i've also never medicated anything.

I did think a toxin of some sort might be entering my tank somehow, but I also thought most things that would affect soft corals would also affect my snails and urchin.

 

[JCTReefer]

Any pics of the tank?

 

[sixline]

Any pics of the tank?

I only have two on my phone right now. A few days ago I ordered some lenses for my iPhone on Amazon and hope to take more photos. But they won't be very interesting as I can't keep corals alive.

 

[sixline]

I just ordered an ICP test for my water.

 

[JCTReefer]

I would definitely address some of the issues above. Bring up your alkalinity levels and bump up your phosphates. Grab a Hanna Checker for your Alk also. Sure does make life easy and it’s pretty darn consistent. I find it very accurate also. Looks like you have some good coralline growth, and that will for sure effect your alk and calcium levels.
The corals you have tried are pretty bullet proof. Admittedly some zoas can be very finicky and melt away for no apparent reason. Any chemicals used around the tank? Sprays of any sort? All fish healthy? I’ll be honest with you, I don’t acclimate corals period. Straight into a dip, then straight into quarantine. Never had any issues like this. And some websites void warranty if you drip acclimate. Softies usually aren’t very demanding and you can usually get by with just water changes to maintain the big 3. Very strange. I’m very curious as to what the ICP will say.

 

[Jonathan.T]

Just my two cents, your alk is definitely one of the main issues and another issue that could probably be the problem is maybe the use of medications in the past eg. copper meds? Run carbon to remove all impurities for awhile and get your alk to a safe range of 7-8 dkh before trying again. Hope this helps

 

[JCTReefer]

Once you’ve ruled out toxins coming in from anywhere. And you’ve found a good system to maintain calcium/alkalinity. Whether that be manual dosing or automated. I’d get every thing dialed in/stabilized and try again. I’d also figure out how much your daily demand is. A Good source of livestock always helps. Not saying those vendors you used were bad. I have no experience with them. I bet you get it figured out!!!

 

[Aqua Man]

Those little starfish can eat Zoas

1 hr drip acclimation for soft corals seems to long. Unless there is a huge difference in your water and LFS water. Temp can drop significantly in that time also

N and P are low for soft coral

Does Calcium level even matter for soft coral?

 

[sixline]

I would definitely address some of the issues above. Bring up your alkalinity levels and bump up your phosphates. Grab a Hanna Checker for your Alk also. Sure does make life easy and it’s pretty darn consistent. I find it very accurate also. Looks like you have some good coralline growth, and that will for sure effect your alk and calcium levels.
The corals you have tried are pretty bullet proof. Admittedly some zoas can be very finicky and melt away for no apparent reason. Any chemicals used around the tank? Sprays of any sort? All fish healthy? I’ll be honest with you, I don’t acclimate corals period. Straight into a dip, then straight into quarantine. Never had any issues like this. And some websites void warranty if you drip acclimate. Softies usually aren’t very demanding and you can usually get by with just water changes to maintain the big 3. Very strange. I’m very curious as to what the ICP will say.

Just my two cents, your alk is definitely one of the main issues and another issue that could probably be the problem is maybe the use of medications in the past eg. copper meds? Run carbon to remove all impurities for awhile and get your alk to a safe range of 7-8 dkh before trying again. Hope this helps

Those little starfish can eat Zoas

1 hr drip acclimation for soft corals seems to long. Unless there is a huge difference in your water and LFS water. Temp can drop significantly in that time also

N and P are low for soft coral

Does Calcium level even matter for soft coral?

OK, so Hanna Alk tester has just been ordered. I was thinking about one of those, and JCTReefer's post put me over the edge. I'll try and get my all up and stable and wait for the results of the ICP. I think that will be interesting. No chemical around the tank, and bought new and never used medication of any kind.

I'm not sure how to increase N and P except for feeding more. My engineer gobies would like that, as well as my lawnmower blenny since the algae on the front glass will grow faster.