What salt do you use and why?

[zenom73]

That is my concern. They say you don't need to dose anything for the first two years of starting up your tank, but I find that hard to believe. A lot of times my alk is in the low 7's. So I dose a little soda ash to try and bring it up, but getting it into the 8's seems to be really tough. I have All for Reef but then my calc/mag would probably shoot up too high. This is a mixed reef only 2 1/2 mos old or so. TM Pro Reef is readily available around here which is why I chose it. Not sure where to go from here, so I started looking.

That’s ridiculous. I would not listen to “them”, whoever that may be. lol

BRS and TM say that in their videos. Water changes will be all you need for 1-2 years. All discussing TM Pro Reef

 

[zenom73]

I think you misunderstand what would happen with AFR.

Even if you used it to make a huge alk boost, you will never see the magnesium boost and the calcium boost is not a problem. 2.8 dKH of alk will only boost calcium by 20 ppm, and calcium was probably used to that extent in lowering alk in the first place.

That is helpful to know. So I am fine dosing AFR. I am still trying to figure out how much to dose. Any advice would be great.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

BRS and TM say that in their videos. Water changes will be all you need for 1-2 years. All discussing TM Pro Reef

I am quite certain BRS did not say in a video that no supplements at all are needed for 2 years. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding of what they meant as a supplement.

@Ryan - Serious Reefs

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

That is helpful to know. So I am fine dosing AFR. I am still trying to figure out how much to dose. Any advice would be great.

Dose enough to maintain alkalinity at your target. How much below your alk target are you now?

 

[Shinji Ayanami]

instant ocean. i like the taste simple enough. ( i like the alk and mineral lvls)

 

[LeftyReefer]

That is helpful to know. So I am fine dosing AFR. I am still trying to figure out how much to dose. Any advice would be great.

I've just recently started using it after using ATI Essentials 2-part for years.

AFR seems like it has a learning curve, so go slow with it at first.

When I started dosing it, my tank seemed to have a delayed reaction to any AFR doses.
Any AFR I dosed, didn't seem to have the intended reaction until about 2 weeks later.
the ALK reaction didn't seem to take place for like 2 weeks.

I started dosing a few ML's every day for like 2 weeks and my ALK never moved and then after 2-3 weeks, it began to rise more than expected and by then I overshot my ALK target by quite a bit.

So go slow. That would be my advice.

 

[zenom73]

That is helpful to know. So I am fine dosing AFR. I am still trying to figure out how much to dose. Any advice would be great.

Dose enough to maintain alkalinity at your target. How much below your alk target are you now?

I am 7.7 would like to be around 8.5

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I am 7.7 would like to be around 8.5

As noted, and primarily when starting up, the alk effect may take some time to fully show up. I think a few days max in most scenarios.

I'd dose 0.1 dKH per day and remeasure after a week and see where you stand.

That 0.1 dKH per day takes about 1/60,000th of your actual tank water volume per day. For 10 gallons, that means 0.6 ml per day.

Then adjust up or down as needed to maintain alk. :)

 

[zenom73]

I am 7.7 would like to be around 8.5

As noted, and primarily when starting up, the alk effect may take some time to fully show up. I think a few days max in most scenarios.

I'd dose 0.1 dKH per day and remeasure after a week and see where you stand.

That 0.1 dKH per day takes about 1/60,000th of your actual tank water volume per day. For 10 gallons, that means 0.6 ml per day.

Then adjust up or down as needed to maintain alk. :)

Thank you very much.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thank you very much.

You’re welcome. Let us know how it goes!

 

[Ryan - Serious Reefs]

I am quite certain BRS did not say in a video that no supplements at all are needed for 2 years. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding of what they meant as a supplement.

@Ryan - Serious Reefs

There are a variety of people on BRStv now, but when I was there, I’m certain I never gave that council :)

There are a couple of situations where it might be true, but it still wouldn’t be what I’d recommend to the masses.

One is an LPS or softy tank that might only lose 1–2 dKH per week. In that case, weekly water changes with an elevated salt like Red Sea Black Bucket, at around 12 dKH and 465 ppm calcium, could keep you in the ballpark for quite a long time.

However, the Tropic Marin Pro he’s referencing here often mixes closer to 7 dKH, so it wouldn’t really be true with that salt. I’m also not a fan of Red Sea salt, the elemental swings that come with this approach, or the challenges of storing saltwater at elevated levels. So this method is pretty far down my list.

The other situation is a 5–10 gallon LPS or softy nano. In that case, a weekly 50% water change, basically one bucket, can take you a very long way. This solves/avoids all kinds of issues for newer reefers with small tanks. There will need to be periodic adjustments but they should be pretty rare. In this case you are trading, testing, dosing, and pumps for heating the saltwater bin and double checking the salinity/temp.

 

[zenom73]

There are a variety of people on BRStv now, but when I was there, I’m certain I never gave that council :)

There are a couple of situations where it might be true, but it still wouldn’t be what I’d recommend to the masses.

One is an LPS or softy tank that might only lose 1–2 dKH per week. In that case, weekly water changes with an elevated salt like Red Sea Black Bucket, at around 12 dKH and 465 ppm calcium, could keep you in the ballpark for quite a long time.

However, the Tropic Marin Pro he’s referencing here often mixes closer to 7 dKH, so it wouldn’t really be true with that salt. I’m also not a fan of Red Sea salt, the elemental swings that come with this approach, or the challenges of storing saltwater at elevated levels. So this method is pretty far down my list.

The other situation is a 5–10 gallon LPS or softy nano. In that case, a weekly 50% water change, basically one bucket, can take you a very long way. This solves/avoids all kinds of issues for newer reefers with small tanks. There will need to be periodic adjustments but they should be pretty rare. In this case you are trading, testing, dosing, and pumps for heating the saltwater bin and double checking the salinity/temp.

I will find the video, but I am pretty sure you were one of them Ryan :D Let me see if I can find, probably a misunderstanding on my part, but might help if I find the video then you can clear it up.

This is a 33 gallon mixed reef about 2 1/2 mos old. Mix of some anacropora, LPS and zoa's at the moment.

 

[zenom73]

There are a variety of people on BRStv now, but when I was there, I’m certain I never gave that council :)

There are a couple of situations where it might be true, but it still wouldn’t be what I’d recommend to the masses.

One is an LPS or softy tank that might only lose 1–2 dKH per week. In that case, weekly water changes with an elevated salt like Red Sea Black Bucket, at around 12 dKH and 465 ppm calcium, could keep you in the ballpark for quite a long time.

However, the Tropic Marin Pro he’s referencing here often mixes closer to 7 dKH, so it wouldn’t really be true with that salt. I’m also not a fan of Red Sea salt, the elemental swings that come with this approach, or the challenges of storing saltwater at elevated levels. So this method is pretty far down my list.

The other situation is a 5–10 gallon LPS or softy nano. In that case, a weekly 50% water change, basically one bucket, can take you a very long way. This solves/avoids all kinds of issues for newer reefers with small tanks. There will need to be periodic adjustments but they should be pretty rare. In this case you are trading, testing, dosing, and pumps for heating the saltwater bin and double checking the salinity/temp.

For your review: you mention in this section. Maybe a miscommunication but it sounds like what is recommended. Again not bashing, just pointing it out.

 

[Rob A]

Instant Ocean because it is cheap and chewy delivers the 60lb box to my front door. I was using reef crystals for a year and didn't see any difference between the two.

 

[Ryan - Serious Reefs]

I’m sure this has been debated before but let’s hear it.

This conversation has gotten a lot more complicated over the last five years. When the difference was a $60 bucket of Instant Ocean versus a premium salt around $90, it might have been a $10/month decision. One salt didn’t have to be dramatically better to justify that.

Today, some premium salts are pushing $139 a bucket. At that point, they start to feel more like a luxury product that requires more consideration or justification.

I suggest forgetting what’s popular or what everyone else uses and ask what you actually want from your salt.

• Cheapest option that works: Instant Ocean is an easy pick.
• Stores well: This has become my #1 priority. I want to mix salt once a month at most, preferably every other month. That means avoiding salts with organics, aminos, bacteria, or highly elevated calcium/alkalinity.
• Mixes fast: My #2 priority. I often need saltwater ready within 30 minutes for maintenance or an emergency. ESV’s approach of adding components in sequence dissolves incredibly fast. Nyos mills its salt almost into a powder and is right behind it. Both can be ready in minutes. Many others take hours or even a full day to become truly clear. By “clear,” I mean you can read the lettering on a heater at the bottom of a 55-gallon Brute.
• Stays clean: My #3 priority. I don’t want to constantly scrub brown crud out of the mixing bin. Cleaner raw materials cost more, and elevated calcium/alkalinity salts are also more prone to precipitation.
• Matches my tank: Water changes should improve chemistry, not create another problem to correct. I avoid salts that are substantially different from my target levels. Cheaper salts often run lower in magnesium because magnesium is one of the more expensive components.
• Elemental consistency: I want consistency from the top of the bucket to the bottom and from batch to batch. Grain size, quality of machines used, and mixing time all matter and contribute to cost. In my experience, IO has been the least consistent, while Tropic Marin and Nyos have been among the best. ESV is a standout because many components are already dissolved in liquid, making a homogeneous mix easier to produce. The tradeoff with ESV is that consistency then depends more on the reefer following the mixing procedure correctly.
• Packaging: Packets, boxes, or buckets. I’m a bucket guy, but this is a low-priority consideration.
• Where it’s made: With imported salts, remember that a meaningful part of the price can be freight, tariffs, and another layer of distribution. Not necessary quality. It has been my experience that the Germans target quality as the primary goal and the American companies target Lowest price point.
• Trust: Do I trust the company to make a consistent product, and do knowledgeable people I trust use it?

Summery of various salts Ive explored and if I would use or recommend them.

Instant Ocean — ~$59/160 gal; Reef Crystals ~$67
I used IO for roughly my first five years. If "monthly" salt cost were a meaningful part of the aquarium budget, I’d use it again. For me, though, it often takes a day to become truly clear, dirties the mixing bin faster than most, and has been the least consistent. I would always test it before use. Reef Crystals is the version I’ve personally had the most problems with.

Red Sea — ~$99/175 or 160 gal
I used it for years and produced great tanks with it. The elevated-level Black Bucket gets more attention, but I think the normal-level Blue Bucket makes more sense for most reefers. I no longer use it because it dirties my mixing bins quickly, doesn’t store as well as some alternatives, and the price advantage has largely disappeared. At this point, I’d rather use IO.

Fritz — ~$85/205 gal at 30 ppt
I haven’t used the salt. I’ve tested some of their other products, and based on those experiences it simply hasn’t made my list.

Tropic Marin Pro — ~$139/200 gal
Clean and consistent. I’d comfortably recommend it to someone for whom price isn’t the primary consideration.

Nyos — ~$100/130 gal
This is what I use now. It is remarkably similar to Tropic Marin Pro but has the levels I prefer and appears to be milled finer, so it dissolves faster. Keep in mind the price is for only 130 gallons, so it isn’t inexpensive. It’s also chronically out of stock, so I tend to buy 6–12 months at a time, preferably on sale.

ESV — ~$107/200 gal
Several people I trust use it, and I really like the approach. I’m simply not willing to do the additional mixing steps. Those steps also get more complicated if you don’t hit the salinity/volume correctly the first time.

Brightwell — ~$111/150 gal
In the testing I’ve done or seen, the levels have generally been much lower than I want. It isn’t really on my list anymore. I’d rather use IO at roughly half the cost.

Aquaforest — ~$76/200 gal
I like their team and the pricing is attractive. I just don’t have enough personal experience with the salt to offer much more than that.

Two Little Fishies — ~$149/200 gal
We all trust and admire Julian, but I’ve had limited experience with the salt itself. For people doing small water changes, the single-use 5-gallon packets are especially attractive.

HW Marine — ~$85/160 gal
My corals reacted very well to it, possibly because of the aminos. The downside is that those organics make it less attractive for someone like me who wants to store mixed saltwater for weeks or months like I do.

One final warning: the advertised cost per gallon can be very misleading. Some brands quote a legitimate volume at normal reef salinity. Others advertise their gallon count at a much lower salinity than almost anyone would actually use.

Personally, I tend to avoid brands that play that game. If you’re willing to mislead me on something as simple as how many gallons the bucket makes, it makes me question everything else.

 

[Ryan - Serious Reefs]

For your review: you mention in this section. Maybe a miscommunication but it sounds like what is recommended. Again not bashing, just pointing it out.

My bad. I thought the quote was referring to all elements, including calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium. That caught me off guard.

Trace elements are much murkier. My first tank thrived on Randy Holmes-Farley’s DIY approach using baking soda for alkalinity, Dowflake for calcium, Epsom salt/Dead Sea Works magnesium chloride, and water changes. I never dosed a dedicated trace element product.

Tropic Marin’s Balling Method is similar at its core: calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium are separate from their A- and K- trace element solutions.

Before that video, Tropic Marin told us that because their salt already contains elevated trace elements, supplemental trace dosing was less important than with salts that did not. I do think that the TM rep, Lou Ekos, also ran into more reefers running into issues over dosing the A/K (more is always better mentality) than he did from people not dosing so that was part of this council.

At the time, there was always a dance between giving solid council and fairly representing what suppliers believed about their own products. I’d like to think we did that better than most retailers, but there were cases like this where I applied a “do no harm” standard and shared the manufacturer’s position vs what I believed modern best practice to be. Since I had personally produced successful tanks using basic calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, and water changes, it passed that test and I do think reefers would be very successful with their council.

Modern reefing does look at trace elements differently. I won’t claim to know exactly what every trace element does or how important each one is, but the broader view today is that some are depleted, provide value, and are worth replenishing.

I’m very happy I no longer have to walk that line and can simply say how I see it. SR has a whole series of "unfiltered" videos where we review the popular additive systems out there. Someday we will likly do salt as well.

For additives, we look at:

• Claim to Fame: What makes it different?
• Standardized Cost: Cost per 10,000 dKH.
• Chemistry: Chemical form, pH impact, approach to trace elements, and effect on salinity.
• Ease of Use: Mixing, setup, and dosing.
• Calculator: Do they offer one, and what does it do?
• Adjustments: How easy is it to independently adjust the major elements?
• Final Thoughts: Would we use it or recommend it?

A bit off topic but Id summarize and say these were the winners

• ESV: Best if cost and retail ease of use are the priorities.
• NAF (Not a Feesh): Best if maximizing pH is the priority. This is what I use now.
• Nyos: A strong moderate-cost option with a modern approach to trace elements
• Triton: Best fit if you run a refugium or algae scrubber.

 

[zenom73]

For your review: you mention in this section. Maybe a miscommunication but it sounds like what is recommended. Again not bashing, just pointing it out.

My bad. I thought the quote was referring to all elements, including calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium. That caught me off guard.

Trace elements are much murkier. My first tank thrived on Randy Holmes-Farley’s DIY approach using baking soda for alkalinity, Dowflake for calcium, Epsom salt/Dead Sea Works magnesium chloride, and water changes. I never dosed a dedicated trace element product.

Tropic Marin’s Balling Method is similar at its core: calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium are separate from their A- and K- trace element solutions.

Before that video, Tropic Marin told us that because their salt already contains elevated trace elements, supplemental trace dosing was less important than with salts that did not. I do think that the TM rep, Lou Ekos, also ran into more reefers running into issues over dosing the A/K (more is always better mentality) than he did from people not dosing so that was part of this council.

At the time, there was always a dance between giving solid council and fairly representing what suppliers believed about their own products. I’d like to think we did that better than most retailers, but there were cases like this where I applied a “do no harm” standard and shared the manufacturer’s position vs what I believed modern best practice to be. Since I had personally produced successful tanks using basic calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, and water changes, it passed that test and I do think reefers would be very successful with their council.

Modern reefing does look at trace elements differently. I won’t claim to know exactly what every trace element does or how important each one is, but the broader view today is that some are depleted, provide value, and are worth replenishing.

I’m very happy I no longer have to walk that line and can simply say how I see it. SR has a whole series of "unfiltered" videos where we review the popular additive systems out there. Someday we will likly do salt as well.

For additives, we look at:

• Claim to Fame: What makes it different?
• Standardized Cost: Cost per 10,000 dKH.
• Chemistry: Chemical form, pH impact, approach to trace elements, and effect on salinity.
• Ease of Use: Mixing, setup, and dosing.
• Calculator: Do they offer one, and what does it do?
• Adjustments: How easy is it to independently adjust the major elements?
• Final Thoughts: Would we use it or recommend it?

A bit off topic but Id summarize and say these were the winners

• ESV: Best if cost and retail ease of use are the priorities.
• NAF (Not a Feesh): Best if maximizing pH is the priority. This is what I use now.
• Nyos: A strong moderate-cost option with a modern approach to trace elements
• Triton: Best fit if you run a refugium or algae scrubber.

Yeah weighting partnerships, sales numbers and accuracy can be a tight line I am sure. I signed up for SR to get the details.

I think it would be cool to see a series on different salts on those test/beginner tanks.

I thought about moving to another salt like aqua forest or something that has the base level of nutrients. Right now I own a large bucket of TM so will use that and just dose AFR. See how it goes. Thanks.

 

[fryman]

I feel like someone posts this question at least once a month and some people just like to argue about 8t round and round...

I don't believe it matters much, so long as you use a reputable brand. That's not to say there is no difference, but you won't get total failure or phenominal success based on whatever salt brand you pick.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

There are a variety of people on BRStv now, but when I was there, I’m certain I never gave that council :)

There are a couple of situations where it might be true, but it still wouldn’t be what I’d recommend to the masses.

One is an LPS or softy tank that might only lose 1–2 dKH per week. In that case, weekly water changes with an elevated salt like Red Sea Black Bucket, at around 12 dKH and 465 ppm calcium, could keep you in the ballpark for quite a long time.

However, the Tropic Marin Pro he’s referencing here often mixes closer to 7 dKH, so it wouldn’t really be true with that salt. I’m also not a fan of Red Sea salt, the elemental swings that come with this approach, or the challenges of storing saltwater at elevated levels. So this method is pretty far down my list.

The other situation is a 5–10 gallon LPS or softy nano. In that case, a weekly 50% water change, basically one bucket, can take you a very long way. This solves/avoids all kinds of issues for newer reefers with small tanks. There will need to be periodic adjustments but they should be pretty rare. In this case you are trading, testing, dosing, and pumps for heating the saltwater bin and double checking the salinity/temp.

Thanks for the feedback! :)

The statement I was addressing did cite alk, and that was my basis for saying it was ridiculous.

zenom73 said:
That is my concern. They say you don't need to dose anything for the first two years of starting up your tank, but I find that hard to believe. A lot of times my alk is in the low 7's. So I dose a little soda ash to try and bring it up, but getting it into the 8's seems to be really tough

 

[docscorals]

I was using Nyos. I used IO when I first started and found it too dirty. I switched to Red Sea and it was a little cleaner. I switched to Nyos a while back and loved it. Super clean and stable. I tried Fritz a couple times when my LFS started carrying it (they used to only sell IO), and found it too dirty be the same. Super clean and it mixes really fast.

When I moved my new LFS also sells Fritz. I like to by my supplies local when I can, so I’ll stick with Fritz. Of course, I don’t do a lot of water changes, only when I need to based on nutrient levels or ICP.