When and why did dosing nitrates start?

[2Sunny]

So, I am seeing numerous accomplished reefers offering advice to beginners to "get their nitrates up" or to even dose nitrates. My reef has always registered zero nitrates, and I never thought twice about that. I assume that nitrate goes through my system but is used up by corals and bacteria. Since when did it become commonly accepted that non-zero nitrate levels are ideal and is there some science behind that idea?

Thanks to any that can answer!

 

[Caseyoidae]

I think the idea behind it is that literal 0 nitrate causes coral stress/ death. Nitrate is essential to their survival. You need some nitrate and are adding it every time you feed the tank. Slightly elevated nitrate 5-10~ can bring out coloration in certain corals like a. tenius. Maybe where you are seeing this?

 

[2Sunny]

I think the idea behind it is that literal 0 nitrate causes coral stress/ death. Nitrate is essential to their survival. You need some nitrate and are adding it every time you feed the tank. Slightly elevated nitrate 5-10~ can bring out coloration in certain corals like a. tenius. Maybe where you are seeing this?

It just seems to me to be every where. Whenever I click on a thread about someone struggling with SPS and they list parameters with 0 nitrate someone inevitably says "up your nitrate". Then recently I realized ESV is even making a nitrate you can dose. Maybe I didn't notice it years ago, but I don't remember seeing a dosable nitrate a decade ago.

Have you experimented with nitrate levels to benefit tenuis? That sounds interesting.

 

[ichthyoid]

Life requires a variety of ‘available’ elements in order to be sustainable. Nitrogen being just one of those elements.

Different life forms can use elements obtained in different forms also. Some can use an inorganic form like nitrate. Others use organic nitrogen like amino acids.

Fwiw, the fact that you don’t measure any nitrate does not mean there isn’t necessarily any. It is likely in forms you are either not measuring or can’t measure. For example, it may be bound up in organic molecules or tissue of organisms. Or, your test kit may not be accurate/sensitive enough or reagents could be old/expired.

Often, bacteria or other organisms help liberate bound up elements, thus making them ‘available’. That may happen at such low levels as to be undetectable using hobbyist grade methods. That is where a research quality test may be needed.

 

[stanlalee]

My guess is there is testing zero because it's all being utilized quickly and efficiently with everything healthy vs testing zero and everything being starved so it has to be added back. Are your nitrates zero naturally or because you've carbon dosed the aquarium to death.
Have never had a problem keeping nitrates at zero with the traditional strategies: don't overstock, don't overfeed, do routine water changes, have decent biological/mechanical filtration and WAIT for maturity. I think what's happened is the rise of alternate nutrient reduction methods that are way more aggressive. I blame zeovit personally lol (j/k).

 

[Dan_P]

So, I am seeing numerous accomplished reefers offering advice to beginners to "get their nitrates up" or to even dose nitrates. My reef has always registered zero nitrates, and I never thought twice about that. I assume that nitrate goes through my system but is used up by corals and bacteria. Since when did it become commonly accepted that non-zero nitrate levels are ideal and is there some science behind that idea?

Thanks to any that can answer!

I would guess it depends on the coral you have whether nitrate level is critical.

Then there is the assumption that 0 nitrate is the same as nitrogen starved. It would be interesting to see an N-DOC test on your system. Your total nitrogen might be in the good range.

 

[flampton]

Truly it's in relation to a nitrogen starved tank and the imo misguided idea that its nitrate per se that is important. A better way dosing wise would be to use ammonia until you see some nitrates. Now obviously this wouldn't be recommended to a beginner or someone who is math challenged.

 

[2Sunny]

Keep in mind that I am not a novice. I have maintained a reef for over two decades and have reset my tank multiple times with similar results, BUT to the point of this thread I ALWAYS test zero on nitrates . . . and I use the highest quality tests and multiple variations . . . I have never found nitrates. Obviously, my system has nitrate that occurs. My question is: Does having trace nitrate in your system improve coral health, and if so what proof is there.

 

[flampton]

Keep in mind that I am not a novice. I have maintained a reef for over two decades and have reset my tank multiple times with similar results, BUT to the point of this thread I ALWAYS test zero on nitrates . . . and I use the highest quality tests and multiple variations . . . I have never found nitrates. Obviously, my system has nitrate that occurs. My question is: Does having trace nitrate in your system improve coral health, and if so what proof is there.

I know you can run a great reef with 0 ppm hobby level of detectable nitrates (very low, not really 0) However if you are a beginner or want a safety margin can run 1-5 or so nitrates to confirm you're giving the reef all the nitrogen it needs as well as a nitrogen sink in case nitrogen levels decrease without the aquarists knowledge.

 

[Cabinetman]

Keep in mind that I am not a novice. I have maintained a reef for over two decades and have reset my tank multiple times with similar results, BUT to the point of this thread I ALWAYS test zero on nitrates . . . and I use the highest quality tests and multiple variations . . . I have never found nitrates. Obviously, my system has nitrate that occurs. My question is: Does having trace nitrate in your system improve coral health, and if so what proof is there.

Your tank looks amazing. Personally I think it’s when people basically starve their tanks to achieve close up 0 nitrates but systems with high nutrient turnovers don’t experience any problems. I’m guessing you feed your tank well?

 

[MabuyaQ]

It just seems to me to be every where. Whenever I click on a thread about someone struggling with SPS and they list parameters with 0 nitrate someone inevitably says "up your nitrate". Then recently I realized ESV is even making a nitrate you can dose. Maybe I didn't notice it years ago, but I don't remember seeing a dosable nitrate a decade ago.

Have you experimented with nitrate levels to benefit tenuis? That sounds interesting.

The problem is most skimmers and other filtration systems we now use weren't available or at least as effective as they are now. So there was always something getting broken down into nitrates, so even when measuring 0 nitrates their would be a healthy amount available that was simply consumed. With a fleece prefilter, oversized skimmer and possibly even algae filter there is sometimes no nitrate left for the corals and bacteria in the water leaving the sump.

 

[NCK]

I blame zeovit personally lol (j/k).

Haha, but seriously...

 

[ichthyoid]

Truly it's in relation to a nitrogen starved tank and the imo opinion misguided idea that its nitrate per se that is important. A better way dosing wise would be to use ammonia until you see some nitrates. Now obviously this wouldn't be recommended to a beginner or someone who is math challenged.

If you aim to keep fish & want to do a fishless startup/cycle, then ammonia is a good idea. In order to build up those bacteria that will convert ammonium to nitrite, to desirable levels.

 

[ichthyoid]

Keep in mind that I am not a novice. I have maintained a reef for over two decades and have reset my tank multiple times with similar results, BUT to the point of this thread I ALWAYS test zero on nitrates . . . and I use the highest quality tests and multiple variations . . . I have never found nitrates. Obviously, my system has nitrate that occurs. My question is: Does having trace nitrate in your system improve coral health, and if so what proof is there.

Nice!
I’ve learned that, especially in this hobby, it’s hard to argue with results!

 

[flampton]

If you aim to keep fish & want to do a fishless startup/cycle, then ammonia is a good idea. In order to build up those bacteria that will convert ammonium to nitrite, to desirable levels.

No dose ammonia to manage nitrogen levels. Where did you get fishless cycling from my post?

 

[taricha]

Keep in mind that I am not a novice. I have maintained a reef for over two decades and have reset my tank multiple times with similar results, BUT to the point of this thread I ALWAYS test zero on nitrates . . . and I use the highest quality tests and multiple variations . . . I have never found nitrates. Obviously, my system has nitrate that occurs. ...

Whenever I click on a thread about someone struggling with SPS and they list parameters with 0 nitrate someone inevitably says "up your nitrate".

Really Nice system!
I think people say zero nitrates isn't enough, because it's easier to talk about the Nitrate number than the flow of N through the system. The better question might be something like "What's your Nitrate and How many mg/L of protein per day go into your tank?"
Also when I see great happy coral systems like yours that have low N, they frequently have a lot of small active fish (chromis & anthias in your case) that eat many times per day. So again, you show "zero" nitrate, but have constant N flow through the system.

 

[joseserrano]

I think there is a big misunderstanding between availability and usage. I test zero and have good growth and color.

 

[ichthyoid]

No dose ammonia to manage nitrogen levels. Where did you get fishless cycling from my post?

I didn’t.

Ammonia is much more toxic to fish than either nitrite or nitrate. That toxicity also increases with both temperature & pH. I would only use it in fishless cycling.

 

[flampton]

I didn’t.

Ammonia is much more toxic to fish than either nitrite or nitrate. That toxicity also increases with both temperature & pH. I would only use it in fishless cycling.

why? That doesn’t compute. You add food don’t you? You add two part or kalk or any other chemical that’s dangerous in overdose but wouldn’t dose ammonia because it can become toxic? Anytime you add food-ammonia. Dose expensive amino acids well that’s just carbon dosing and ammonia in one

 

[ichthyoid]

why? That doesn’t compute. You add food don’t you? You add two part or kalk or any other chemical that’s dangerous in overdose but wouldn’t dose ammonia because it can become toxic? Anytime you add food-ammonia. Dose expensive amino acids well that’s just carbon dosing and ammonia in one

That introduced food is converted gradually. I suggest reading the article below-

About Ammonia

Ammonia will result any time an aquarist adds any type of organic matter to water. Check out these tips from Fritz Aquatics to learn how to balance it!

fritzaquatics.com