Who came up with 76-78 temps?

[Lbrdsoxfan]

That's what I'm seeking. Those outside the norm of what was established by someone we don't know yet actual experience showing it's practical.

The fowlr tank was a stumble onto those temps. Long story short, heater was crapped out for over a year and I didn't know it. Fish were doing fine with just the house temp swings and the lighting 2x 150w MH bulbs + hood kept the temps in relative check. House was usually around 70 degrees (so. Cal weather).

My current 120g, the heater never cycles on, like ever.

 

[GARRIGA]

I think the 76-78 is a range that most people can consistently achieve and is acceptable to the corals and fish. Much of the reefing community would struggle to keep temperatures below this without chillers. Tanks generally run considerably warmer than room temperatures due to pumps and lighting.

Were that the case tanks wouldn't need heaters. Seems many need to raise temps with the advent of LED and those running external pumps contribute less heat as well. Could just be that future builds might lean colder if ahead of build it was taken into consideration. Obviously where one is located matters as I'm air conditioned year round and my room temps remain in the 69-72 range and only because we adjust it. Those in colder climates might have days where windows are open and temps will likely fluctuate.

My quest is how to best setup my main as well as QT and observation. Tossing the heater would be best for various reasons and going to try first with smaller tanks yet curious if others have and where exactly did this dogma evolve from. Doesn't appear to be isolated to corals. Recall planted tanks of the 70s were in the 75-78 range best I can recall.

 

[GARRIGA]

The fowlr tank was a stumble onto those temps. Long story short, heater was crapped out for over a year and I didn't know it. Fish were doing fine with just the house temp swings and the lighting 2x 150w MH bulbs + hood kept the temps in relative check. House was usually around 70 degrees (so. Cal weather).

My current 120g, the heater never cycles on, like ever.

Sometimes it's from unexpected failures we learn. Fact is most I know today regardless what it is from failures

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

I would assume part of it came from the fact that a lot of marine critters grow faster under higher temps, part of it came from surface water temperatures, and part of it came from some critters not doing well/suffering physical damage long-term at lower temps - such as clownfish, for example:

I don't know how long it has to stay cold before you see the damage, but 23-24C (73.4-75.2F) is the lower limit for Ocellaris clownfish - the few studies I've found on it list 32C as the upper limit; below 23-24C and above 32C, the fish will eventually die from the temperature-induced changes in their bodies.

I can't find the article that discussed it (I apparently messed up the links in my post discussing it), but I believe 16-18C is where you can run the risk of seeing short-term damage from the temperature - again, though, I don't know how long that means; it could hours, it could be days, I'm not sure.

Physiological responses of the common clownfish, Amphiprion ocellaris (Cuvier), to factors related to packaging and long-distance transport by air

The physiological response of the common clownfish, A. ocellaris, to factors pertinent to air transportation conditions was studied in three stages: (…

www.sciencedirect.com

Thermal preference, tolerance, and thermal aerobic scope in clownfish Amphiprion ocellaris (Cuvier, 1830) predict its aquaculture potential across tropical regions - International Aquatic Research

The clownfish Amphiprion ocellaris is widely distributed in the coral reef ecosystems of tropical and subtropical regions of the West Indo Pacific, an area that hosts economically valuable species, and, thus, a suitable candidate for warm water aquaculture. This study determined the preferred...

link.springer.com

 

[GARRIGA]

I would assume part of it came from the fact that a lot of marine critters grow faster under higher temps, part of it came from surface water temperatures, and part of it came from some critters not doing well/suffering physical damage long-term at lower temps - such as clownfish, for example:

That's a good point on faster growth and something I believe should be done in QT to advance the life cycle of pathogens but in general faster growth in nature tends to equate with shorter lived. Why southern squirrels with longer feeding months get out lived by their northern counterparts.

I'm not necessarily a fan of keeping for example corals in high pH and alkalinity. Yet to go there but doubt I will. Not sure we know yet the long term affects.

Wasn't aware clownfish did poorly at lower temps. Could something else be involved? Guessing you're speaking of captive bred.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

I’m following this thread, this is an interesting discussion

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Could something else be involved? Guessing you're speaking of captive bred.

Possibly - and at least one of the two studies used captive bred clowns, yeah; so the wild caught could very well be more resilient.

And, yeah, the faster growth does typically equate to shorter lifespan in marine organisms as well.

 

[Dragen Fiend]

Hmm I wonder if there is a difference between cultured coral vs wild. I've never seen any issues with my coral when my temps dipped under 74. Thankfully my AC was off so ambient temps were high enough to maintain temps.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Hmm I wonder if there is a difference between cultured coral vs wild. I've never seen any issues with my coral when my temps dipped under 74. Thankfully my AC was off so ambient temps were high enough to maintain temps.

There are regional temperature tolerance differences for corals, so I'd assume there are differences for cultured vs wild as well:

I’ve been reading through a bit of literature on corals and temperatures, and - generally speaking - 83F is considered the safe limit you don’t want to go beyond, so some people might recommend not going above 82 as a precaution.
Edit: when accounting for the slight inaccuracies of our heaters/controllers, I personally would set 82F as the limit.

That said, though, there are a number of caveats that determine what temperature is too high. To list a few:
1) the location the coral was collected from (some coral reefs have higher temperature tolerances based on their geography than others - 83F [technically like 83.6F or so] is the limit for the least heat resistant reefs, if I recall correctly; I believe somewhere around 87-89F was the limit for the most heat resistant).
2 ) temperature stability (the more stable the temperature the coral is used to, the less it’ll like changes to temperature).
3) how long the coral has to acclimate to the higher temperature (slow and steady wins the race).
4) corals can handle temperatures above their temperature limit for a limited amount of time (if the temperature is only slightly over, the corals only start showing distress/begin bleaching after a few days [four days at 1-2F over, if I recall correctly]; if the temperature is significantly above the limit, the corals will show distress/bleaching within hours).

So, as Tamberav and a few others I’ve seen here on the forums can attest, 86 may not be too hot, but - personally- if you’re going to run a tank that hot I’d take things nice and slow (likely ramping up over the course of a month or two) to get the corals there as a precaution.

This also leads me to wondering if the 76-78F range was selected to safely accommodate a wider range of species.

 

[UMALUM]

Could we say its a fact that over the years it been proven to be aquaculture specimens just simply perform better at these temps? Wouldn't running higher temps make complete sense being that every other aspect of what's done in the hobby these days is accelerated?

 

[GARRIGA]

Hmm I wonder if there is a difference between cultured coral vs wild. I've never seen any issues with my coral when my temps dipped under 74. Thankfully my AC was off so ambient temps were high enough to maintain temps.

One would think wild more resilient to change since that's what they evolved in. Doubt natural reefs are ever as stable as we keep our tanks. Having said that, considering fragging is relatively new in the evolution of corals that I doubt they've lost any ability to adapt from which the original colonies grew.

 

[Dburr1014]

Based following the industry guidelines or because lower wasn't beneficial. Perhaps those involved in coral farms around the world have seen deviations since it's expensive to keep everything at 76-78.

I used to keep it at 78 but then I read somewhere around here that lower temperatures may actually be a little better. There's a few threads floating around here.

 

[GARRIGA]

Could we say its a fact that over the years it been proven to be aquaculture specimens just simply perform better at these temps? Wouldn't running higher temps make complete sense being that every other aspect of what's done in the hobby these days is accelerated?

Assuming they were first kept colder and that failed. Back as far as my memory works, don't recall outside of goldfish and some other freshwater fish being kept below 76 coming from tropical climates. Turns out goldgish do just fine in warmer, too. There were cold water specific aquariums kept around 55 but I'm not speaking of that. Cool sea horses I recall and anemones, however.

 

[GARRIGA]

I used to keep it at 78 but then I read somewhere around here that lower temperatures may actually be a little better. There's a few threads floating around here.

I searched and found none. I'll keep searching then

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

As an occasional diver, I have wondered why warmer is not acceptable. Most of the shallow reefs I have dived on the water was over 80 degrees F.

I think what it comes down to, is that most aquariums keep a wide variety of species some shallow water, some deep water. Generally going too warm is more dangerous than too cold and it is very difficult to keep a tank below room temperature without a chiller. I am sure room temperature varies seasonally and by region. but according to IUPAC room temperature is 25C or 77F. This is right where most of us keep our tanks. If you want to go warmer or cooler that isn't a problem but stability is king and it is easier to adjust up than to adjust down. Additionally, if you plan to mix species from different temperature regions then it is best to aim for the middle of the road concerning temperature.

 

[GARRIGA]

There are regional temperature tolerance differences for corals, so I'd assume there are differences for cultured vs wild as well:

This also leads me to wondering if the 76-78F range was selected to safely accommodate a wider range of species.

Specific to that found in coral reefs then if said reefs are not within that narrow range then any creature taken from it would be expected also not to be so confined. This I recall being the preferred range with Amazon and African Cichlids, as well.

 

[GARRIGA]

As an occasional diver, I have wondered why warmer is not acceptable. Most of the shallow reefs I have dived on the water was over 80 degrees F.

I think what it comes down to, is that most aquariums keep a wide variety of species some shallow water, some deep water. Generally going too warm is more dangerous than too cold and it is very difficult to keep a tank below room temperature without a chiller. I am sure room temperature varies seasonally and by region. but according to IUPAC room temperature is 25C or 77F. This is right where most of us keep our tanks. If you want to go warmer or cooler that isn't a problem but stability is king and it is easier to adjust up than to adjust down. Additionally, if you plan to mix species from different temperature regions then it is best to aim for the middle of the road concerning temperature.

Assuming you dove deeper. What was your impression of temps at 30 or deeper relative to surface. Not seeking exact degrees but did it feel colder. That's been my experience although not a diver but in my youth swam ten feet down up north and it was chilling cold.

 

[fish farmer]

As an occasional diver, I have wondered why warmer is not acceptable. Most of the shallow reefs I have dived on the water was over 80 degrees F.

I think what it comes down to, is that most aquariums keep a wide variety of species some shallow water, some deep water. Generally going too warm is more dangerous than too cold and it is very difficult to keep a tank below room temperature without a chiller. I am sure room temperature varies seasonally and by region. but according to IUPAC room temperature is 25C or 77F. This is right where most of us keep our tanks. If you want to go warmer or cooler that isn't a problem but stability is king and it is easier to adjust up than to adjust down. Additionally, if you plan to mix species from different temperature regions then it is best to aim for the middle of the road concerning temperature.

There was actually a time when many were running tanks in the low 80s.

 

[X-37B]

I ran 80-82 for years due to the extreme heat at that house I owned with no issues.
Current system is heat on at 76 off at 77.
I think it came from a stability point like keep your alk between 8-12, lol, when the ocean is less than 7. More oxygen at lower temps and if it rises to the 80's no issues either.
When first getting acros to grow in the early 90's people were running alk in the 15-18 range because it worked for them.
Picking a number for all your parameters and keeping them in range is more important overall for any system.

 

[Dburr1014]

Thread 'Lps dominated reef tempertaure' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lps-dominated-reef-tempertaure.1041020/

There may be more threads and maybe I read it was an off topic on another thread about lower temperature.